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Medical selectors, pages, etc.
Judge Sides With Families Fighting Florida’s Ban on Gender Care for Minors
By Donna
June 15, 2023 6:32 am
Category: Medical

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In fascist Flarda yet.

A federal judge wrote that the plaintiffs suing to block the new law are “likely to prevail on their claim that the prohibition is unconstitutional.”

A federal judge in Florida issued a scathing assessment on Tuesday of the state’s ban on gender transition care for minors, asserting in a ruling that the families with transgender children who sued the state are “likely to prevail on their claim that the prohibition is unconstitutional.”

Judge Robert L. Hinkle of Federal District Court in Tallahassee ruled specifically that three transgender children can be prescribed puberty blockers despite the new state law, which also adds new hurdles for adults who seek similar care.

But as legal challenges have been mounted to new restrictions on transition care that have been enacted across the country, Judge Hinkle’s ruling exemplifies the kind of chilly reception that the bans may receive from judges.

“Gender identity is real,” Judge Hinkle wrote, adding that “proper treatment” can include mental health therapy followed by puberty blockers and hormone treatments. “Florida has adopted a statute and rules that prohibit these treatments even when medically appropriate.”


Cited and related links:

  1. nytimes.com

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Comments on "Judge Sides With Families Fighting Florida’s Ban on Gender Care for Minors ":

  1. by HatetheSwamp on June 15, 2023 7:21 am

    As usual. The TQ agenda is foisted by a judge...against regulations "of the people and their representatives."

    I will say that what the Supreme Court will do with these laws is uncertain to ol pb. Before ACB, it may have ruled against "the people and their representatives." Now? Who knows!!!!!?


  2. by Donna on June 15, 2023 7:36 am

    It's good to see that some judges are protecting our Constitution from zealous extremists.



  3. by HatetheSwamp on June 15, 2023 7:59 am

    I've said all along that some of these laws violate the liberties guaranteed to citizens by the Bill of Rights. We'll see on this one.

    This Court is serious about the authority of legislators...i.e. "the people and their representatives." We'll see.

    This ruling seems to undermine protections on those mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps AKA po's "MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats."

    We will see.


  4. by Donna on June 15, 2023 8:11 am

    The only "mommies and daddies" who are affected are those who want to be able to have their doctor prescribe and administer healthcare for their TG children w/o interference from zealous extremist politicians. "Mommies and daddies" who don't want gender affirming medical care for their TG children aren't affected, regardless of the final ruling.


  5. by HatetheSwamp on June 15, 2023 9:16 am

    Well, yeah. That's where there's issues. Mommies and daddies who, say, give reefer to three year old children, or even 10 or 12 year olds, are considered pret'near universally of committing child abuse.


  6. by Indy! on June 15, 2023 11:51 am
    People freak out over every new dumbass law that falls out of DeSantis' pie hole. "OMG - DON'T VISIT FLORIDA - MOVE OUT OF STATE AS SOON AS YOU CAN!!!!" 🙄 Meanwhile us Floridians know virtually all of them are unconstitutional either on the federal or state level and will simply be overturned before they are instituted anywhere other than the few "Alabama" portions of the state.


  7. by Donna on June 16, 2023 8:49 am

    If what you're saying is true, then there are a lot of districts in Flarda that went for DeSantis (practically all of them - see map at link) that have buyer's remorse.



  8. by Donna on June 16, 2023 8:50 am

    OOPS! Link below.

    politico.com


  9. by HatetheSwamp on June 16, 2023 11:59 am

    Thing is, as Donna's been pointing, it's not just DeSantis and it's not just Florida.

    We know that the abortion law is constitutional. And, based on last year's Supreme Court precedents, what's the fruit of "the people and their representatives," unless it's wacked, is going to pass muster.


  10. by Indy! on June 16, 2023 9:31 pm
    Well again, it's comical that the people who don't live here (and probably never even visited the state) think they know Florida better than the residents. Got news for you, Donna - the Rs could have run Hitler and most of the counties would have went R because the Florida Ds are even more incompetent than the national Ds (if you can believe that's possible). Look who the competition was in that race - Charlie Crist - a candidate who was GOP, then Independent, then D. Basically a carpetbagger neither party (or independents) could trust. Yet somehow he was the "best" candidate the Ds could find. So whoever is the R candidate next time is probably going to win as well. But if I were you? I wouldn't be talking considering you gave the country Nancy Pelosi (R- Califartnia), Dianne "Where the fuck am I?" Feinstein, Adam "I've seen absolute proof, Trump is a Russian agent" Schiff and Gavin "I support medicare unless I don't support medicare" Newsome.

    Peebs - got news for you... We have voter direct legislation in this state. Oh yeah... you forgot about that - Florida aint nearly as backwards as some of you like to believe. We can override the assholes in Tallahassee anytime we want. Read it and weep...

    https://www.sun-sentinel.com/2022/05/28/florida-poll-67-want-abortion-legal-in-most-or-all-cases-just-12-want-complete-ban/


  11. by HatetheSwamp on June 17, 2023 12:53 am

    Indy!,

    That article is behind a pay wall for me but I could see the title. Abortion is legal in Florida. And, based on last year's Supreme Court decision, the Florida law is constitutional. I disagree with it but, it's constitutional, Based on what I know.


  12. by oldedude on June 17, 2023 2:48 am
    Indy!
    Just to catch you up. We moved to the gulf coast of FL to take care of my wife's son and daughter-in-law (well, help take care of the kids is more accurate). We have a little bit of acreage around horse lands. So it's a great place to have the two-year-old run around and get on his balance bike.

    I am one of those weird people. I don't fly my prior state's or country's flag at the house. It's a US flag and the FL (lots of TX, PR, and canada flags around here). I figure I chose to move here to live, so...

    Like you, fall means the change of license plate colors (and even worse drivers than Floridians).

    All that said. I agree with your statement; "Well again, it's comical that the people who don't live here (and probably never even visited the state) think they know Florida better than the residents." and running Crisp? Really? "We have voter direct legislation in this state. Oh yeah... you forgot about that - Florida aint nearly as backwards as some of you like to believe. We can override the assholes in Tallahassee anytime we want."

    Donna- I couldn't see anything on voter's remorse in your stats/ citation. What you showed was an incomplete voting map that didn't have the actual final voting. All precincts were in, but not counted. I'd be interested in that. My guess is that it's going to come from Politico, MSN, CNN, etc.


  13. by Donna on June 17, 2023 7:39 am

    od: Of course there isn't much voter's remorse in Flarda. That's the point I'm making with Indy.


  14. by Indy! on June 17, 2023 12:09 pm
    Peebs - no idea why you got a paywall - sorry. It's not that way for me (and I don't pay - so something's wrong somewhere). What the article states is the majority of all Floridians believe abortion should be legal. Only 12% believe it should be illegal. 35% of Rs believe abortion should be legal in any instance. DeSantis' law states 15 weeks - if need be, that can easily be changed by the next guv or by the People of Florida - the greatest state in the nation.

    But my original post was not about any particular law, it was about people like Donna here who think they somehow know something about Florida we Floridians don't know and think they have room to talk about other states even though people are flocking to our great state (as evidenced by OD's post) even as they flee as quickly as they can from Califartnia. It's even funnier when we consider Califarters are concerned about DeSantis when they live in the same state that gave the country Ronald Reagan, who is responsible for the downfall of this country.


  15. by HatetheSwamp on June 17, 2023 12:17 pm

    Indy!,

    Baha.

    FYI: Donna and po moved to Arizona, I dunno, about a year ago.


  16. by Ponderer on June 17, 2023 12:31 pm

    Tucson. Year and a half ago now. We're loving it here.

    California is not a place for a couple to try to retire on little more than Social Security.


  17. by Donna on June 17, 2023 12:45 pm

    Indy: You're bringing up Reagan? You know that he was president 40 years ago, right?

    Maybe you didn't notice that CA's been blue for over 20 years and that Flarda has gone the opposite direction in recent years.

    Changing the subject... Have you been following Dave Grusch's testmony to AARO?




  18. by Donna on June 17, 2023 1:00 pm

    And btw DeSantis's abortion law is 6 weeks under normal circumstances. It's only 15 weeks in cases of rape or incest.


  19. by Donna on June 17, 2023 1:13 pm

    You're right, though, about DeSantis's abortion law being unpopular in Flarda. From thehill.com:

    "Sixty-one percent of state Republican respondents said they oppose banning abortions after six weeks of pregnancy with no exceptions for rape or incest, and 34 percent said they support such restrictions." 


  20. by Indy! on June 17, 2023 4:21 pm
    Comical that you folks are still acting like blue and red are black and white in 2023. They're the same exact thing. Trump is corrupt - Biden is corrupt. Trump is a pedo - Biden is a pedo. And if you live in Fartizonia instead of Califartnia now - you live in a red state anyway. 🙄


  21. by Donna on June 17, 2023 4:33 pm

    We former Californians are turning Arizona Blue.

    Unlike Flarda, here in Arizona we elected a Democratic governor, Secretary of State, and both US Senators. Now we need to get to work on the state legislature which is Republican led.



  22. by Donna on June 17, 2023 4:40 pm

    I'm guessing that you'll be supporting RFK Jr. Am I right?


  23. by Indy! on June 17, 2023 4:52 pm
    It's comical that you think it will make a difference. What have the Ds done with their control of the national gov't? I mean besides getting Roe overturned? 😂

    And no, I will not be voting for RFK. He has a D next to his name.


  24. by Donna on June 17, 2023 5:15 pm

    Neither party controls the national government.

    Many D's want to save SS by eliminating the pay in cap, which I support. The R's want to save SS by raising the retirement age to 69 and privatize it. Which policy do you support?

    If you like a candidate's platform, why should the letter next to their name matter to you?





  25. by Indy! on June 17, 2023 7:45 pm
    That's funny. The Ds "want to" in the same way they "wanted to" provide some student debt relief and "wanted to" codify Roe into law yet that desire seemed to be sated not by actually providing debt relief or codifying Roe into law - but instead by the calendar. Both were forgotten the day after the election.

    If the candidate is running for a corrupt party - he will be a corrupt legislator. Seems pretty self-evident to me. Besides, pretty sure I was still on this board when the Ds cheated Bernie and I vowed to never vote D again. To bring you up to date on that one... I haven't. 😉


  26. by Donna on June 17, 2023 11:31 pm

    I guess you aren't aeare that Biden's stdent debt relief plan has been held up by SCOTUS, which is due to rule on it in the coming wreks.

    You really think that every Democratic politician is corrupt? I think that's nutty.


  27. by Indy! on June 18, 2023 12:51 am
    Yes, I am aware of Biden’s latest lame excuse to not give students the debt relief he promised. Are you aware that one of the (unnecessary) “compromises” Biden gave his fellow Republicans during his debt ceiling giveaway was his promise that interest would not accrue on debt relief during the covid grace period for people who could not continue to pay? So he has not only chosen to not give students relief - his lie has cost them even more money. Not unlike his $2000 lie was actually only $1400 - costing everyone in America $600 they could have used during covid.

    And no, I don’t think all Ds are corrupt. I know they are because I’m paying attention. 😌


  28. by HatetheSwamp on June 18, 2023 4:01 am

    Back on topic:

    From GAG: "No one cares that you’re gay or trans. They care that you’re trying to sexualize, sterilize and butcher children."

    This is from the leading anti-TQ LGB group, leading one part of the three-headed monster destroying the trans political agenda and trans ideology.

    Note. GAG ain't anti-TQ entirely. Anti-Q for sure. But, as far as trans people are concerned?, only anti-woke trans.

    po, Donna. C'mon over to the light.


  29. by oldedude on June 18, 2023 4:10 am
    I haven't said anything on this thread for a reason.

    Lead- "I will say that what the Supreme Court will do with these laws is uncertain to ol pb. Before ACB, it may have ruled against "the people and their representatives." Now? Who knows!!!!!?"

    That has been my reasoning. This is one step in a PROCESS that is going to last years. I have made my thoughts plain, so there's no reason to rehash that. The courts will do what the courts will do. Eventually, SCOTUS will hear it. The laws anti-group will argue it's individual rights are being infringed. The state will argue it's a states' rights issue that protects children, and the feds have no say. The ONLY legal grounds SCOTUS can hear are breaches in the Constitution (per se), and/or the standing federal laws.

    When it gets to SCOTUS, I'll watch for it. Both sides will challenge if they lose on any level before that. The winners? The lawyers who are making the killing in this.


  30. by HatetheSwamp on June 18, 2023 4:41 am

    Right, OD. The winners are the lawyers. Since Indy!'s here for the moment, there are three of us with a healthy cynicism about the evils of the Swamp: Indy!, you and me.

    The rest worship the judicial foisting game and, as far as the trans political agenda and trans ideology is concerned, the evil Medical/Industrial Complex...and all those $billions to be made exploiting those poor, confused children and teens.


  31. by Ponderer on June 18, 2023 6:13 am

    "Back on topic:" -Hate

    Of how a judge sided with families of transgender minors in regards to Florida's heinously sociopathic and wantonly bigoted ban on gender care for them? Sure great......!


    "From GAG: "No one cares that you’re gay or trans. They care that you’re trying to sexualize, sterilize and butcher children."" -Hate quoting hate

    Ummm... That has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic, Bill. That's just the disgustingly hateful and wildly mendacious rant of some thoroughly bigoted anti-trans propagandist with a relatively minuscule following of hatefully like-minded bigots who are gullible enough to believe their flaming horseshit.

    Unless... Did you think it had something to do with this topic... maybe because these assholes and their asshole politicians are butting their asshole heads into the constitutionally protected business of families with transsexual kids...? By telling them and their doctors how to medically and psychologically treat their trans kids...? When these same assholes and asshole politicians don't know the first god damned thing about the subject they want to regulate at all...? Or how they don't give a flyingfuck about the lives they are cavalierly destroying...? Is that how believed that what you said was relevant to this topic, Bill...?

    You said you wanted to get back to this topic. I'm just trying to understand how you thought what you said did that.


    "Note. GAG ain't anti-TQ entirely. Anti-Q for sure. But, as far as trans people are concerned?, only anti-woke trans." -Hate

    Geez. Where does one even start with something like that. I mean, what the hell is that dementia-soaked gibberish even supposed to mean...?





  32. by HatetheSwamp on June 18, 2023 6:38 am

    "From GAG: "No one cares that you’re gay or trans. They care that you’re trying to sexualize, sterilize and butcher children."" -Hate quoting hate


    Ummm... That has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic, Bill. That's just the disgustingly hateful and wildly mendacious rant of some thoroughly bigoted anti-trans propagandist with a relatively minuscule following of hatefully like-minded bigots who are gullible enough to believe their flaming horseshit.


    Wrong. Did you see that no one cares if you are...trans? No one does. What's clear is that people care if you're WOKE. Ask the good people at Anheuser-Busch. Target. Ask effin Garth Brooks!

    And, po. I'm pretty sure that that miniscule number of people in the GAG sphere is greater than the number trans people. Baha! You're not a part of the, as you'd say, effin, silent majority.

    More and more people, by the day, understand that the woke trans political agenda and trans ideology come down to advocating the attempt to "sexualize, sterilize and butcher children."

    Hence all those "fascistic and disgusting" laws supported by your so-called "MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats."


  33. by Ponderer on June 18, 2023 7:15 am

    "Did you see that no one cares if you are...trans? No one does." -Hate

    So thefuck what, Bill? What straw man nonsense!

    This isn't about anyone caring if we are trans or not. This is about ignorant, sociopathic, bigoted lawmakers goaded by likewise ignorant propaganda swallowers inserting themselves into families' constitutionally protected private affairs between them and their medical and psychological care givers.


    I am not in any way surprised that you took a screen name with the word Hate in it, Bill. It so totally suits you. That's all this is about to you and all these willfully ignorant people you support and champion. You are happy to let them speak for you. You don't care about anyone else's children either. These GAG assholes don't care about other people's children. They just want to hate. It's all about the hate and spreading hate and promoting hate. You assholes just need to hate. And we have become your latest target. You are trying to make us the new n-words, the new minority to hate and scream at for no legitimate actually real reason. The only real reason being their hateful and sociopathic bigotry stemming from willful paranoia.


    What am I supposed to say, Bill? You willful idiots are swallowing flaming horseshit by the cartload and you'll let no one even slow you down. If I'm nicer about it, maybe if my entire community was nicer about it, maybe then you'll stop and examine the error of your ways and realize how you've all been lied to? Don't make me laugh.


  34. by Donna on June 18, 2023 7:34 am

    Yes, I am aware of Biden’s latest lame excuse to not give students the debt relief he promised. Are you aware that one of the (unnecessary) “compromises” Biden gave his fellow Republicans during his debt ceiling giveaway was his promise that interest would not accrue on debt relief during the covid grace period for people who could not continue to pay? So he has not only chosen to not give students relief - his lie has cost them even more money. Not unlike his $2000 lie was actually only $1400 - costing everyone in America $600 they could have used during covid.

    And no, I don’t think all Ds are corrupt. I know they are because I’m paying attention. - Indy!


    This is the wrong topic thread for this. See the new topic thread I started.



  35. by HatetheSwamp on June 18, 2023 7:45 am

    This isn't about anyone caring if we are trans or not. This is about ignorant, sociopathic, bigoted lawmakers goaded by likewise ignorant propaganda swallowers inserting themselves into families' constitutionally protected private affairs between them and their medical and psychological care givers.

    I think you're seriously wrong. GAG is serious about fighting the predatory practices of supporters of the woke trans political agenda and trans ideology. The entire rapidly expanding anti-TQ LGB movement is fierce and it's committed to saving "fem boys" and "tom boys" from woke trans and trans-phile indoctrination. It's about love.

    You know those "fascistic and disgusting" laws that the LGBTQ community is losing over in state legislatures and now fighting in court? Their most vehement supporters?, all are anti-TQ LGB groups and activists. The "MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats" are a small part of it.

    Check out GAG on Twitter. Count all the School Board meetings and City Council meetings it attends. All the arms it twists. With the anti-TQ story of love.

    I pointed out last year at the end of Pride Month that the LGBTQ coalition is beginning to crumble. I predicted that this one would be a doozy. I couldn't have imagined.

    Go ahead. Belittle the anti-TQ gospel of love. But, just imagine Pride Month in 024.


  36. by HatetheSwamp on June 18, 2023 7:50 am

    I am not in any way surprised you took a screen name with the word Hate in it, Bill. It so totally suits you.

    Interestingly, I was thinking about that in the shower this morning. In terms of our conversations here, I do Hate the Swamp and I so hate the woke social agenda. Both of which you love.



  37. by Donna on June 18, 2023 8:14 am

    Btw, the reason I spell Florida "Flarda" is because that's the way Baltimorons pronounce it. I was born in Baltimore and raised in the suburbs.




  38. by Ponderer on June 18, 2023 8:15 am

    "In terms of our conversations here, I do Hate the Swamp and I so hate the woke social agenda." -Hate






    Say, Bill... What is that "woke social agenda" you speak of again...? And could you put your answer in the form of bullet points? That'd be great.








  39. by HatetheSwamp on June 18, 2023 8:33 am

    You honestly don't think that there's such a thing?


  40. by HatetheSwamp on June 18, 2023 8:36 am

    Interesting, Donna.

    My Appalachian relatives pronounce Hawaii, "Hawallya." I can never get that out of my head.


  41. by Ponderer on June 18, 2023 11:35 am

    "You honestly don't think that there's such a thing?" -Hate

    No. I don't. Mainly because no one can even describe what it is beyond vague generalities and mendacious propaganda.

    What I really don't think is that you will ever list off what they hell you mean by "The Woke Social Agenda". You can't even explain what you mean by "Woke".




  42. by Donna on June 18, 2023 1:19 pm

    The Philadelphia accent is similar to "Balimerese". I would think that Philadelphians would also say "Flarda", but actually IDK.



  43. by Donna on June 18, 2023 1:34 pm

    Wikipedia has an excellent page on Balimerese. They compare it to the Philadelphia accent.

    I used to have a moderate Baltimore accent before I moved to CA when I was 27, but I've lost most of it. I never had a strong Baltimore accent, but I still say "Flarda" as well as "harrable" , which is also how New Yorkers pronounce horrible.




  44. by Donna on June 18, 2023 1:35 pm

    Link below.

    en.m.wikipedia.org


  45. by Indy! on June 18, 2023 3:02 pm
    Yes, I have a healthy distaste for the US government, however I have not said anything about the trans issue. Just to clarify in case anyone is jumping to conclusions. I am open to information - but I am not judging anyone.


  46. by HatetheSwamp on June 18, 2023 3:13 pm

    Donna,

    I listen to Philadelphia talk radio regularly. It might be Florda.


  47. by Ponderer on June 18, 2023 4:04 pm



    "Until a drag queen walks into a school and beats eight kids to death with a copy of 'To Kill a Mockingbird", I think you're focusing on the wrong sh*t." -Wanda Sykes




  48. by HatetheSwamp on June 19, 2023 3:24 am

    Okay! It's effin Flor-i-da.


  49. by oldedude on June 19, 2023 5:03 am
    Say, Bill... What is that "woke social agenda" you speak of again...? And could you put your answer in the form of bullet points? That'd be great.

    I did that in an earlier post. You just don't bother to read those things.


  50. by HatetheSwamp on June 19, 2023 5:13 am

    Yeah, OD. I didn't understand what po was getting at. po and isle and Donna, especially are deeply concerned with social issues. And, they are woke. Doesn't po know what they believe? Was that po's point?


  51. by HatetheSwamp on June 19, 2023 5:26 am

    "When trans people stop trying to erase LGBs/women and indoctrinating children, we can talk." -LGB United
    twitter.com


  52. by Ponderer on June 19, 2023 6:13 am

    "I did that in an earlier post. You just don't bother to read those things." -olde dude

    Perhaps the answer that you gave that you thought was an answer actually wasn't. That happens an awful lot with you.

    You have a tendency to babble effusively, od. And nearly everything you say has little to nothing to do with the topic or the question asked of you. Or it's just paranoid nonsense.



    Let's use this example as an experiment, od. Go back and find what you thought was an answer to the question What is the "woke social agenda"?, re-post it here, and we'll discuss why it either didn't actually answer the question, or was just wrong.....





  53. by Ponderer on June 19, 2023 6:35 am

    I love how you always leave out the pertinent information, Bill. It's okay though. Don't worry about it. It's something that essentially all MAGA Republicans do:


    "Why is this controversial at all. Transphobic people are a danger to trans people and women. They could just choose to not be transphobic."

    "Transphobes aren't welcome ANYWHERE. If you're transphobic stay at home."


    "When trans people stop trying to erase LGBs/women and indoctrinating children, we can talk."



    The woman that your hero was responding to made perfectly rational and reality based comments there. And your guy knee-jerks a rote, robotic response of hate and bigoted idiocy.

    He might as well have said that when we stop kidnapping babies and grinding their bones to make our bread, then transphobes like him will be willing to stop being bigoted sociopaths towards us. I see. That's all we have to do, huh? Our entire community just has to stop doing what it isn't even fuckingdoing in the first place.

    We aren't trying to "erase" anyone, let alone gays, lesbians and bisexuals. We aren't indoctrinating children into anything. And an asshole like that absolutely doesn't want to talk in any event. People like him and you, Bill, are perfectly happy with your hate. It's a comfort and a security blanket for you.

    And people like you and your hero there don't giveashit if trans people and kids are put at risk by any of your bigoted, hallucinatory ravings. You must feel that we have it coming because you believe that we eat babies I guess.



  54. by HatetheSwamp on June 19, 2023 6:52 am

    po,

    I merely quoted the tweet as, as you'd say, an effin MAINSTREAM example of what anti-TQ LGB groups and activists...not only GAG...say and think during Pride Month, 023...because it comes from an anti-TQ LGB activist.

    What I'm lovin these days is that the most ferocious argument against the woke trans political agenda and trans ideology is coming from the LGB community...

    ...and, that your "fascistic and disgusting" "MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats" can just stand by, smiling, and watch.

    It's beginning to seem to ol pb that, as far as you are concerned, the least threatening of the three-headed monster that is destroying the woke trans political agenda and trans ideology is the "fascistic and disgusting" "MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats" whom you love so much to hate.


  55. by Ponderer on June 19, 2023 7:07 am

    It was one freaking tweet, Bill! It in no way represents the effin MAINSTREAM of anything. Who elected that guy President of the Mainstreme?

    My GOD the mountain ranges you can make out of the tiniest mole hill.


    Oh well. At least using your logic, I am free to declare this guy as the leader of mainstream Republicanism. He tweeted a lot too.


  56. by Ponderer on June 19, 2023 7:07 am
    oh never mind.


  57. by HatetheSwamp on June 19, 2023 7:32 am

    It was one freaking tweet, Bill! It in no way represents the effin MAINSTREAM of anything. Who elected that guy President of the Mainstreme?

    Either you are lying or you're ignorant, po. The anti-TQ LGB movement is expanding rapidly. And, in fact, the leading voices in the movement are becoming increasingly radical. As vociferous as GAG is, I'm realizing that it's extremely moderate by the standards of the rest of the movement.

    I've already posted that I unfollowed one anti-TQ LGB activist on Twitter because the hate was too virulent for me even to read for the sake of understanding, theoretically, the movement's extremes.

    Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, this anti-TQ LGB movement is a coming thing. And, check out GAG. It's very well organized.

    You may not want any of this to be true, but it is.


  58. by Ponderer on June 19, 2023 8:38 am


    "I've already posted that I unfollowed one anti-TQ LGB activist on Twitter because the hate was too virulent for me even to read for the sake of understanding, theoretically, the movement's extremes." -Hate


    Thank you, Bill. Thanks for allowing me, by virtue of your sage example, to judge your entire political party by your party's extremes. (Dang. I wish I could get that picture of the leader of the Proud Boys to work...)

    Those extremes of virulent hate, which just about gave you the vapors, are the anti-trans movement, Bill. No matter how you try to sugar coat it. And they represent only a minuscule percentage of the American public. Their growth will be far from logarithmic I can assure you.

    It will never be mainstream to be anti-trans, Bill. No matter how demonic these anti-trans fuckheads try to slander us out to be. America is supposed to be far better than that. Even as you root it on to sink to its worst.



  59. by oldedude on June 19, 2023 9:11 am
    Po the Angry😠-Perhaps the answer that you gave that you thought was an answer actually wasn't. That happens an awful lot with you.

    You have a tendency to babble effusively, od. And nearly everything you say has little to nothing to do with the topic or the question asked of you. Or it's just paranoid nonsense.

    Then don't bitch about what you choose not to read.🙄

    LEAD- The main issue is that we see the core concepts in polar opposites. Whether being “woke” is a good or a bad thing is a topic of fierce debate in America. In a 2023 Ipsos (Center bias) poll, 56% of respondents said the word "woke" means to "be informed, educated on, and aware of social injustices." Thirty-nine percent said it means "to be overly politically correct and police others' words."

    The term has very different connotations and meanings depending on your view.

    Woke is a term that generally refers to awareness of issues related to racism, discrimination and social justice, and support of policies or cultural changes to address purported injustices and institute more social equity or equality. However, the term is used both positively and negatively by those across the political spectrum, and carries very different meaning depending on who is wielding it and their view of purported social and racial justice issues — including whether they believe these are even legitimate issues in the United States, and whether proposed cultural, legal, and institutional reforms to address these purported issues would actually be helpful or harmful.


    The article is longer, but this is pretty much the synopsis. It does bring up some interesting points from both sides.
    allsides.com


  60. by oldedude on June 19, 2023 9:18 am
    Donna- The only "mommies and daddies" who are affected are those who want to be able to have their doctor prescribe and administer healthcare for their TG children w/o interference from zealous extremist politicians. "Mommies and daddies" who don't want gender affirming medical care for their TG children aren't affected, regardless of the final ruling.

    Donna, on the micro, I'd agree with you. EXCEPT the schools are passing rules that parents don't need and shouldn't have access to that information. IF the schools were forthright, it's a family decision. If the parents don't know, they're taken out of the equation, which is their legal right.


  61. by Donna on June 19, 2023 9:31 am

    I agree, except that there are cases where the child would be in potential danger from their parents if they were outed to them.


  62. by HatetheSwamp on June 19, 2023 10:25 am

    Thank you, Bill. Thanks for allowing me, by virtue of your sage example, to judge your entire political party by your party's extremes.

    po,

    I dunno if these people are GOPs. I know that Jaimee Michell supports Ron DeSantis for President...with a zeal I could never achieve. But, affiliated with a political party? That doesn't seem to be on the minds of anti-TQ LGB groups and activists. They oppose your support of the sexualization of toddlers, children and teens. They oppose your connection to the medical industrial complex. That's what pb knows.

    As far as they being a miniscule portion of the American public? Maybe. But that's not how it works. They already have an influence well beyond their GROWING numbers.

    You know what a mess Pride Month 023 is compared to last year. Thank those bonkers anti-TQ LGB groups and activists. YOU CAN'T MALIGN THEM AS BEING HOMOPHOBES! If you do? You're merely proving your arrogance and sanctimony. Baha.

    They say outrageous things that the "fascistic and disgusting" "MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats" could never get away with saying. But, lots of those things, about say, your side's support of sexualizing toddlers toddlers, are 100% true...

    ...and, the "fascistic and disgusting" "MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats" can quote them...and get their message out...and, they are.

    This is all bad for you because you're woke and you support the trans political agenda and trans ideology.

    I predict that the next chapter in the LGBTQ struggle will be the condemnation of woke trans people by sane LGBs so that if you are trans and don't want to be ostracized, you're going to have abandon being woke.

    That'll be hard for you.


  63. by Ponderer on June 19, 2023 10:34 am

    Whether being “woke” is a good or a bad thing is a topic of fierce debate in America. In a 2023 Ipsos (Center bias) poll, 56% of respondents said the word "woke" means to "be informed, educated on, and aware of social injustices." Thirty-nine percent said it means "to be overly politically correct and police others' words."

    The term has very different connotations and meanings depending on your view.

    Woke is a term that generally refers to awareness of issues related to racism, discrimination and social justice, and support of policies or cultural changes to address purported injustices and institute more social equity or equality. However, the term is used both positively and negatively by those across the political spectrum, and carries very different meaning depending on who is wielding it and their view of purported social and racial justice issues — including whether they believe these are even legitimate issues in the United States, and whether proposed cultural, legal, and institutional reforms to address these purported issues would actually be helpful or harmful.



    Well, olde dude. I take back what I said.

    If you posted that here before and I missed it, I was wrong in my accusation and my bad. That is an excellent presentation of what "woke" means. In all it's widely varying essence. It originally meant all the positive things that are noted in there...

    *Woke is a term that generally refers to awareness of issues related to racism, discrimination and social justice, and support of policies or cultural changes to address purported injustices and institute more social equity or equality.

    ...But since in it's original form it represented minorities gaining power and awareness, the right wing had to turn it into something to be shunned and hated. Like it does with anything or anyone that they want to squash that might stand in their way to power.

    I take "Woke" to mean exactly what it was originally intended to mean, as it is *referenced above. Word for word.

    olde dude, since you and Hate have such a distaste for "woke", could you tell us what it is in *the above definition that you find so detestable that it needs to be eradicated from society? Or at least in Florida?

    Why do you, and the politicians who you support, believe that there should be no "woke"...? What have you got against "awareness of issues related to racism, discrimination and social justice"...? Why do you believe in not "supporting policies or cultural changes to address purported injustices and instituting more social equity or equality"...?


    Anyway, again, I was wrong earlier and I apologize.






  64. by HatetheSwamp on June 19, 2023 10:39 am

    Good article, OD, on the use of the word "woke."

    Certainly, among many, to describe a person as being woke is to offer praise. When I use it on SS to describe po and isle, I am not praising them. Baha


  65. by Ponderer on June 19, 2023 10:44 am

    "You know what a mess Pride Month 023 is compared to last year." -Hate

    Well what do you expect when a cartel of your favorite conservative right wing propagandists make it their life's work to fuckup anything the LGBTQ community does? When they specifically target their hatred on something like this, look out.

    "Divide and Conquer" is an exceptionally effective propaganda tactic. And your side does it all the time like this. You've gotten really good at it.

    You and your hordes of trans/homophobic right wing Karens are accomplishing your mission, Bill. Congratulations.

    And gofuckyourself.


  66. by HatetheSwamp on June 19, 2023 10:53 am

    po,

    Just keep thinkin it's only them there hate mongering "fascistic and disgusting" "MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats." Pleeeeeeeeease."


  67. by Ponderer on June 19, 2023 11:09 am

    And you just keep thinking that that's what I'm thinking. You've never shown that you ever have any problem with being wrong.


  68. by oldedude on June 19, 2023 1:48 pm
    olde dude, since you and Hate have such a distaste for "woke", could you tell us what it is in *the above definition that you find so detestable that it needs to be eradicated from society?
    From the SAME ARTICLE-

    “woke” as a pejorative term for entirely different reasons than leftists. In this view, “woke” is used negatively to describe ideas, viewpoints, and policy changes that they believe would radically and negatively alter society, and is bad because looking at the world through a lens of oppressor and oppressed, or through left-wing identity politics, is the precursor to harmful socialist or Marxist reforms that would upend free and fair societies, expand the state and oppress most or all people — or would oppress specific groups the “woke” see as upholding perceived systemic injustices against minorities, such as straight white people.

    In this view, being "woke" is a negative thing, because it describes people who encourage ideological conformity and seek to institute harmful reforms such as upending the traditional family structure, eliminating the gender binary, giving or taking things away from people based on race, opening our borders, defunding the police, refusing to prosecute crimes, re-writing history, eliminating market-based economies, canceling books and movies, and eradicating the American Constitution.Italics



  69. by Ponderer on June 19, 2023 5:18 pm

    Yeah.

    Right. I read that part.

    So what is your point? I'm aware that the term has been bastardized by the right and turned into a pejorative. My question was why do you think it's bad. I already know that 's what you think. And you referenced words that matched what you think. But why do you think it? And why are mere beliefs negate actual harms being done to people?

    The part you highlighted talks about what people believe about woke. And now I know you think that way too.

    I want to know why you decided to think that woke, as defined by its original definition and intention, was such a terrible thing. You don't have to copy and paste anyone else. You can just say why you agree with the worst sentiments of what "woke" has been mutated into meaning by the right.....



  70. by HatetheSwamp on June 19, 2023 5:31 pm

    Oy, po. Do we have to quote Humpty Dumpty on words for you again? Words work for the person using them, not t'other way round. Over here, sneeringly, it's an adjective to describe progressive, limousine liberal Political Correctness and sanctimony...on steroids.

    It's easy to laugh both at and about. Baha.


  71. by Indy! on June 19, 2023 7:52 pm
    Both of the party faithful are asleep imho.


  72. by oldedude on June 19, 2023 8:32 pm
    And why are mere beliefs negate actual harms being done to people?

    1. You don't deal with facts, you deal with "beliefs," how much harm are you doing to people? You have no "facts" to support your theory.

    2. this is why we disagree. As I discussed before, this is where the term "awake" came in to use. You really should have read that cite at least.


  73. by Curt_Anderson on June 20, 2023 3:32 pm
    There seems to be a trend here:

    Judge blocks Arkansas ban on gender-affirming care for transgender minors

    Trump-appointed judge blocks parts of Indiana ban on gender-affirming care for trans youth


    kcra.com
    cnn.com


  74. by Ponderer on June 20, 2023 6:06 pm

    Fuckingsadisticsociopaths.


  75. by oldedude on June 20, 2023 7:03 pm
    I think that's a self disclosure.


  76. by HatetheSwamp on June 21, 2023 3:28 am

    Judge blocks Arkansas ban on gender-affirming care for transgender minors

    Trump-appointed judge blocks parts of Indiana ban on gender-affirming care for trans youth


    Yeah, Curt. Exactly. From his first days on the old SS forum pb pointed out that the the woke political agenda [back in the day, he called it "pc"] has always been foisted on the citizens of the republic.

    What's happening now, is, due to the efforts of my three-headed monster, i.e.,:

    1. Anti-TQ LGB groups and activists
    2. Old-school Title IX feminists, and,
    3. [As po has it] "fascistic and disgusting" "MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats"...

    "the people and their representatives" have passed legislation to protect organic female athletes and toddlers, children and teens from supporters of the trans political agenda and trans ideology.

    We'll see who prevails in the end, the foisters or "the people and their representatives."

    If this is, as white, middle-class, limousine lib progressives claim, a democracy, the people'll win.

    Based on last season, the Supreme will, ultimately, side with the people. But, pb's not so sure on these issues.


  77. by Ponderer on June 21, 2023 5:56 am

    I'll never understand why it is so important to you MAGA Republicans to destroy the lives of young trans kids. The pig-ignorant sadism of you and your political party is literally sickening, Bill. You and your MAGA Republicans have become the personification of the word despicable.



  78. by Donna on June 21, 2023 7:35 am

    Even those judges that Trump appointed in Arkansas and Indiana can see that politicians inserting themselves between doctors and their patients is disgusting and fascistic.


  79. by islander on June 21, 2023 8:32 am

    Just stopped by for a second because I found this interesting.

    "A recent YouGov poll finds that Americans are highly divided when it comes to issues relating to transgender youth. This may stem in part from the fact that few Americans feel they have a very good understanding of the treatments available to transgender children and teenagers. Those who do feel they have a good understanding are more likely to support allowing them access to treatment. Democrats are twice as likely to support allowing transgender teens access to puberty-blockers than to oppose it, and a majority are in favor of allowing schools to provide instruction on gender identity, including access to books that tell stories about transgender youth. Republicans are far more likely to oppose these actions.

    Most Americans say they lack an understanding of the treatments available to transgender children and teenagers: Over half (58%) say they understand the treatments not too well or not well at all, while just 13% say they understand them very or extremely well.

    Parents of children under 18 are no more likely to say they understand treatment options than Americans overall. Familiarity with a person who is transgender is tied to greater understanding. While understanding is not closely tied to party identity, it is linked to age: Americans 45 and older are more likely to say they lack an understanding of treatment options than are adults under 45."


    It'll be interesting to see what happens as more Americans begin to have a better understanding of this.

    today.yougov.com


  80. by HatetheSwamp on June 22, 2023 11:05 am

    isle,

    Being, as I am, someone who studies up on what the anti-TQ LGB groups and activists AND the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who merely want to raise their kids without government intrusion, my strong sense is that the poll doesn't address issues with which those two groups are concerned.


  81. by Donna on June 22, 2023 11:13 am

    I don't normally post video links, but I encourage you all to watch this 6 min 24 sec excerpt from a discussion comedian Jon Stewart had with Arkansas Attorney General Leslie Rutledge about the controversy over TG youth being blocked by Republican politicians from receiving medical care for their gender dysphoria.


    View Video


  82. by Curt_Anderson on June 22, 2023 11:26 am
    Donna,
    Jon Stewart made the mistake of trying to use logic on that female politician. Nice try!

    Listening to AMA and other medical organizations is good when dealing with pediatric cancer but not for gender dysphoria issues. Then Arkansas Republicans want to follow "expert" organizations she cannot remember the names of.


  83. by HatetheSwamp on June 22, 2023 11:43 am

    Jon Stewart made the mistake of trying to use logic on that female politician. Nice try!

    Holy cow, Curt!

    I know know you are joking. But, yikes, man! That's a tasteless, sexist joke that got chauvinist pig men in trouble in the 50s!!!!! Oy freakin vey. Using logic on a female politician? Like Hillary? AOC? Nancy? Kammy? Pocahontas!!!!!?

    Just wow, bubba!


  84. by HatetheSwamp on June 22, 2023 12:04 pm

    Jon Stewart is a woke moron. The American Academy of Pediatrics has become highly politicized. It's an entirely meaningless authority.

    This is an old interview. Since the interview, the anti-TQ LGB movement has grown expomentially. It's peopled by LGBs. Many of the anti-TQ activists are people who are in the process of detransitioning, or have detransitioned...whose lives have been destroyed by the powerful medications their developing bodies have been exposed to and who have had surgeries inflicted on the that can never be fully reversed.

    The key reality is that, these days, many children are misdiagnosed as having gender dysphoria. A person who waits until age 18 or 21 to begin treatments and surgery can have them at their leisure but there are thousands who've been misdiagnosed who are damaged forever.


  85. by Curt_Anderson on June 22, 2023 12:05 pm
    HtS,
    I know how sensitive you are to protecting women's rights so I need to clarify.

    I did not say a female politician, I said "that female politician".


  86. by HatetheSwamp on June 22, 2023 12:14 pm

    Flimsy, Curt. What are you suggesting distinguishes "that female politician" from others?


  87. by Curt_Anderson on June 22, 2023 12:33 pm
    Her responses to Stewart.


  88. by HatetheSwamp on June 22, 2023 12:43 pm

    Why did you specify that her insufficiency is that she's "that FEMALE politician?"

    I think, Curt, that you allowed some pretty serious sexism into the light of day. You said your secret part out loud.


  89. by islander on June 22, 2023 1:00 pm

    Hate wrote: ”my strong sense is that the poll doesn't address issues with which those two groups are concerned.”

    That’s a non sequitur, Hate. The article is not addressing issues, it’s relating the findings of the poll, which were... “The poll finds that Americans are highly divided when it comes to issues relating to transgender youth. This may stem in part from the fact that few Americans feel they have a very good understanding of the treatments available to transgender children and teenagers. Those who do feel they have a good understanding are more likely to support allowing them access to treatment.”

    I agree with the poll’s findings...Those with the least understanding of the treatments available to transgender children and teenagers are the ones who are most likely to oppose them.

    I hope you will sincerely try to get a better understanding of transgenderism and the treatments available to transgender children and teenagers...And you’ll then be in a much better position to help the people you are talking about to have a better understanding themselves. You do want them to have a better understanding...Don’t you?

    By the way, Donna, excellent video of the discussion Jon Stewart had with Arkansas Attorney General Leslie Rutledge about this controversy. THX !!


  90. by Donna on June 22, 2023 5:59 pm

    You're welcome, islander.

    I learn a lot from watching expert debaters like Jon Stewart.





  91. by oldedude on June 22, 2023 7:05 pm
    I'm sorry.
    Point of order. Is this set of people in one state?

    If so, why aren't going through the state appeals process? It just seems strange that the plaintiffs in this case are all from FL, ergo, going through the federal courts system is not relevant yet. These are instate folks fighting against a state law. The feds shouldn't be involved until they go through the state court system, and start on the federal appeals court.

    I'd like to see they went through the process that doesn't waste the federal courts' time.

    If anyone knows the answer to this, please enlighten me, and I'll read it "furshur" (thank you "Muppets."


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