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Good news regarding Trump!

By Donna
November 22, 2022 9:14 am
Category: Religion

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15,000 signatures so far.

In its petition, the group called on Christians to "speak out" and "make it clear that Donald Trump does not share our values and will never have our votes."

"We don't know much yet about how the 2024 election will play out, but one thing is certain: Another Trump presidency would be a disaster for our country," the organization wrote on the petition.

Faithful America also said in its petition that the Bible teaches "love, equality, and dignity," which it says are values that Trump's MAGA movement "clearly rejects."

Nathan Empsall, a reverend and the executive director of Faithful America told Newsweek on Monday that Trump had "weaponized religion" in his last two campaigns for president in 2016 and 2020.

"Neither the country nor the church can afford another four years of this charlatan's fascism, racism, misinformation, or ego," Empsall said.


Cited and related links:

  1. msn.com

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Comments on "Good news regarding Trump! ":

  1. by HatetheSwamp on November 22, 2022 9:22 am

    Where does the Bible teach equality and dignity?

    And, Donna, I'm going to have to bust you...

    ...AGAIN...

    ...for suggesting that there's anything at all good about making the US a Christian nation. So, we can't be a Christian nation if Donald Trump is President!!!!!? For shame, for shame, for shame.


  2. by HatetheSwamp on November 22, 2022 9:25 am

    I gotta ask. Don't you agree. The guy on Trump's right in the picture at the end of the line...looks like Mr. Bean?


  3. by Donna on November 22, 2022 9:46 am

    "Where does the Bible teach equality and dignity?

    And, Donna, I'm going to have to bust you..."

    Hold it right there. I'm gonna have to bust you for assuming those are my words. All I did was post what some Christians at Faithful America are saying.




  4. by HatetheSwamp on November 22, 2022 10:04 am

    So, you think these "Christians" are evil, hoping to violate the Bill of Rights by opposing Trump because he's not a good Christian? I don't buy that. In the past, you've gobbled up pleas for a government built on the foundation of liberal Christian theology.


  5. by Donna on November 22, 2022 10:05 am

    Again, not from me.

    50 Bible verses about equality, race, gender, and rights

    biblereasons.com


  6. by HatetheSwamp on November 22, 2022 10:47 am

    Paul Ryan invents a new category of anti-Trumpism

    I'm not sure he invented it. There's lots going around.
    cnn.com


  7. by HatetheSwamp on November 22, 2022 10:54 am

    Donna,

    Interestingly, just this morning Evie and I were talking about Bonhoeffer's concept, "cheap grace."

    Are you familiar with the term, eisegesis?

    I'm not sure I ever thought that you and I would be proof-texting from the Bible with each but I will point out that you are getting dangerously close to arguing that America should be a Christian nation. I just loooooooove progressive Christian nationalism!!!!! Bahahahahahahahahahaha!


  8. by Donna on November 22, 2022 11:35 am

    "Paul Ryan invents a new category of anti-Trumpism"

    "Never-Again Trumper". How lame. It was stupid of him to vote for Trump the first time. If the Trump experiment hadn't backfired so badly, he'd still be supporting him.


  9. by Donna on November 22, 2022 11:39 am

    "I'm not sure I ever thought that you and I would be proof-texting from the Bible with each but I will point out that you are getting dangerously close to arguing that America should be a Christian nation."

    It would be nice if more Christians followed (or at least sincerely tried to follow) the teachings of Jesus, but I, like our Founders, believe in the separation of church and state.



  10. by Donna on November 22, 2022 7:51 pm

    I had to look up eisegesis. As with our Constitution, even scholars disagree about the meanings of parts of it. I guess they accuse each other of eisegesis.


  11. by Donna on November 22, 2022 7:57 pm

    LOL! I was right! From Wikipedia:

    While some denominations and scholars denounce Biblical eisegesis, many Christians are known to employ it—albeit inadvertently—as part of their own experiential theology.

    Modern evangelical scholars accuse liberal Protestants of practicing Biblical eisegesis, while mainline scholars accuse fundamentalists of practicing eisegesis. Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians say that all Protestants engage in eisegesis, because the Bible can be correctly understood only through the lens of Holy Tradition as handed down by the institutional Church; this is articulated in the Dei verbum.[3] Protestants and fundamentalist Christians likewise often accuse Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians of eisegesis for viewing Scripture through Holy Tradition, and may accuse Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians of fabricating or distorting tradition to support their view, which they see as opposed to the doctrine of Sola scriptura where the text is believed to be able to speak for itself without Holy Tradition.[citation needed] Jews, in turn, might assert that Christians practice eisegesis when they read the Old Testament as anticipating Jesus of Nazareth.[4][5]


  12. by HatetheSwamp on November 23, 2022 3:50 am

    Donna,

    pb's point is that your gang of liberal Christian nation-ers begin with the Enlightenment, embrace its notions of equality and dignity, then foist them on Scripture. It's cute when is sincere in its naivéte. "You can't vote for Trump. If you do, this won't be a Christian Nation!" Bahahahahahahahahahaha.

    But, still, you do seem to love it when progressives promote their own Christian Nationalism...yet, you decry it when America as a Christian nation is promoted by those reviled, unwershed "Evangelicals."


  13. by Donna on November 23, 2022 8:45 am

    LOL! I love it when all you eisegesisers argue over who has the real Hot Line to the Creator of the Universe!


  14. by HatetheSwamp on November 23, 2022 8:55 am

    I can't see that I joined in the real Hot Line claim thing. That's not my thing. And, I don't think that we should choose a President by comparing candidates to Bible teachings. I don't want this to be a Christian nation...and, I'm interested in condemning your image of America as a Christian Nation but I refuse to buy into it.


  15. by Donna on November 23, 2022 9:10 am

    "I'm interested in condemning your image of America as a Christian Nation but I refuse to buy into it."

    You don't think that the world would be a nicer place if everyone sincerely tried to emulate Jesus?


  16. by HatetheSwamp on November 23, 2022 10:06 am

    Donna,

    I don't think theocracies are practical. Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world." I'm pretty sure that you can't legislate spirituality.


  17. by Donna on November 23, 2022 10:40 am

    I thought it was clear that I wasn't talking about legislation or government.



  18. by HatetheSwamp on November 23, 2022 11:05 am

    How could you have a Christian Nation without laws?


  19. by Curt_Anderson on November 23, 2022 11:33 am
    "How could you have a Christian Nation without laws?" --HtS

    Laws are a system in which authorities control and enforce behavior of the members of that community. Laws are not necessarily codified. Depending on the eisegesis of those in charge individuals may or may not be in violation of biblical precepts.


  20. by HatetheSwamp on November 23, 2022 11:39 am

    By definition, I think "laws" are codified. At any rate, in a Christian Nation, some of the values would, of necessity, be in a code.


  21. by Curt_Anderson on November 23, 2022 11:47 am
    You seem to have forgotten that laws existed before codification by Hammurabi.
    en.wikipedia.org


  22. by islander on November 23, 2022 1:02 pm

    Christianity is not a code of laws, therefore trying to codify Christianity and turn it into a set of laws is, in my mind, not possible. This is why it’s never been done.

    Different Christian sects, groups, and even individual Christians themselves, have different values and priorities, and it’s upon their values that people’s ethics and morals are based.

    And, of course there are limits to what what laws can do, and how would Christian laws be enforced and who would enforce them ? A law cannot make people honest, caring, or fair. A person’s values and ethics, however, might be able to do that.


    ”In 1958 the Harvard Law Review published the famous Hart Fuller Debate, which addressed the relationship of law and morality (Harvard Law Review, 1958). Hart held that morality and law are separate and Fuller asserted that morality is the source of the law’s binding power. Laws bind every citizen to abide by them; however, moral standards depend upon an individual’s upbringing, values, religious background, and 
culture.”

    atrainceu.com


  23. by HatetheSwamp on November 23, 2022 1:14 pm

    Christianity is not a code of laws, therefore trying to codify Christianity and turn it into a set of laws is, in my mind, not possible. This is why it’s never been done.

    Duh. But, it's Donna's gang that is rejecting a presidential candidate because he's not Christian enough. pb opposes every attempt to make this a Christian Nation. The words "separation of church and state" are not constitutional but, in a broad sense, they're a useful guiding principle for life in these 50 states.


  24. by Donna on November 23, 2022 2:06 pm

    "But, it's Donna's gang that is rejecting a presidential candidate because he's not Christian enough." - Hts

    It's hard to have a conversation with you because you constantly distort what others say and put words in their mouths. I think you do that to manufacture arguments, which you do because you're addicted to arguing.

    I reject Trump for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with religion.

    When I said "It would be nice if more Christians followed (or at least sincerely tried to follow) the teachings of Jesus, but I, like our Founders, believe in the separation of church and state," Obviously I wasn't promoting the establishment of an official national religion. I'm not even a member of a religion. I was talking about treating others as you would want to be treated and selflessness, both of which require no religious beliefs to follow.





  25. by HatetheSwamp on November 23, 2022 2:31 pm

    C'mon, Donna. We know that your Faithful America group doesn't want to create a national religion. But, the point of your post is that these people are boldly, brazenly and unabashedly opposed to Trump because, in their interpretation of the Bible, Trump is not a good Christian.

    If Pat Robertson and James Dobson say that about Joe Biden, do you think that's appropriate for American politics? My sense is that you don't.

    pb thinks that voting based on a biblical analysis of a candidate, as the Faithful America folks do, is bad for America. They, of course, are free to do that...and you are free to be encouraged by it, but pb thinks it sucks.


  26. by islander on November 24, 2022 4:55 am

    "But, the point of your [Donna’s] post is that these people are boldly, brazenly and unabashedly opposed to Trump because, in their interpretation of the Bible, Trump is not a good Christian.” ~ Hate

    Unless I’m mistaken, and Donna can let me know, Donna’s point is exactly what she said it is...Not your mischaracterization of it.

    The evangelicals are “now” turning on Trump claiming they were fooled by him. They now see him for what he is (a con man)...We have been telling them that since 2015...



  27. by HatetheSwamp on November 24, 2022 6:12 am

    isle,

    Since you're our resident authority on all things Evangelical. Which Evangelicals have turned on Trump and are claiming that they were fooled by him?

    All I'm saying is that Donna is repulsed by Christian Nationalism when the Christians in the frame are conservative or, even worse, support Trump but, when Christians start Bible thumpin in opposition to Trump? That's Christian Nationalism Donna, and many progressive Swampcultists, looooooove!


  28. by islander on November 24, 2022 7:04 am

    I’m repulsed by Christian nationalism as well. When Christian Bible thumpers who espouse Christian nationalism are finally willing to acknowledge that Trump conned them, that’s something I’m glad to see. That doesn’t mean I’ve now become a supporter of Christian nationalism, it only means that I’m happy Trump is finally losing their support and they are seeing him for what he is. Naturally, not all can see it or even care who and what Trump is as long as they think he can help them get what they want.

    ”when Christians start Bible thumpin in opposition to Trump? That's Christian Donna, and many progressive Swampcultists, looooooove! ”

    It seems to me that you are totally distorting what Donna actually said, but I’ll let Donna speak for herself as you should do too.

    ”Since you're our resident authority on all things Evangelical. which Evangelicals have turned on Trump and are claiming that they were fooled by him?”

    You really know nothing about any of this? 
Do some research.

    “We even worked with Jerushah Duford, granddaughter of legendary evangelical pastor Billy Graham, to release a video urging fellow voters of faith, particularly evangelical women, to not vote for trump. We made multiple stops in Duford's home state of Michigan, with a focus on the evangelical stronghold of Kent County, which flipped to Biden this year, with Trump winning evangelical voters by a 3 point margin in 2016 and Biden winning them by a 6 point margin in 2020.


    What we constantly heard from faith voters, including those who supported Trump in 2016, was that the president's complete lack of basic kindness made it hard for them to support him. This finding was corroborated by a poll VCG commissioned, which showed that Trump's unkindness was driving evangelical and Catholic voters in swing states away in large enough numbers to potentially impact the outcome of the election.
     
    We operated under the assumption that persuading even just 5% of evangelical voters who supported Trump in 2016 to abandon him this year would be enough to defeat him. Based on the national and battleground exit polling data, it appears we were right.” ~ INSIDER 


    businessinsider.com
    theatlantic.com


  29. by HatetheSwamp on November 24, 2022 7:23 am

    I’m repulsed by Christian nationalism as well. When Christian Bible thumpers who espouse Christian nationalism are finally willing to acknowledge that Trump...

    Did you read the post that started this thread? These Christian nationalist Bible-thumpers oppose Trump. The truth is that the blending of church and state is always ugly to you progressive Swampcultists...until it's other progressives who are doing the thumping and nationalizing. I haven't noticed you criticizing these Faithful America Bible-thumpers. Hmmmm. Why?

    And, well respected Evangelical leader, Jerushah Duford!!!!!? Bahahahahahahahahahaha! You've got to know that as a Christian who despises Trump, pb is waiting for the day when Evangelical movers and shakers dump Trump. This is not that!


  30. by Donna on November 24, 2022 7:26 am

    What laws are liberal Christians advocating for in the name of their religious beliefs?


  31. by HatetheSwamp on November 24, 2022 7:43 am

    None, Donna. I've said that they're free to do that and that you are free to be encouraged by it.

    pb has been consistently clear that he's passionately opposed to the blending of church and state. He's always opposed it here when James Dobson and Pat Robertson do it. He's equally opposed when progressive Swampcultists do it...

    ...but the real point pb's making is that you Blue MAGAs here are appalled by efforts to blend religious beliefs and political involvement when MAGAs do it but, when the blending of religious belief and political involvement is bad for Trump?, that's "good news." It's also hypocritical.


  32. by Donna on November 24, 2022 7:58 am

    You missed the point of asking you what religious laws liberals Christians are advocating for.

    It was a theoretical question. The answer is "zero".

    So they aren't Christian Nationalists.

    I don't care if Christians or Jews or Muslims vote their religious beliefs.

    My objection is when people are forced to obey religious-based laws.



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