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Opinion selectors, pages, etc.
America would be better off if we got rid of U.S. Customs and Border Protection and ICE.
By Curt_Anderson
October 1, 2023 12:44 pm
Category: Opinion

(5.0 from 1 vote)
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Anybody who pays attention to my posts knows that I favor practically no restrictions on immigration. The following excerpts are from an article in today's NY Times which I link to below. I would like to have Democrats make the case for increased immigration, instead of playing into the GOP's anti-immigration rhetoric. ---CA


Why Can’t We Stop Unauthorized Immigration? Because It Works.
Our broken immigration system is still the best option for many migrants — and U.S. employers.
American consumers benefit from these systems every time they find exceptionally inexpensive ways to get their lawns cut, their bathrooms cleaned, their houses built, their apples picked, their nails painted and their young and old cared for. The prices we pay for these services have been subsidized for generations by transnational migrants. In 2015, economists at Texas A&M concluded that if immigrant labor were eliminated from the dairy industry, the retail price of milk would nearly double. More recently, in Florida, construction projects stalled and their costs rose after the state passed new laws targeting undocumented residents. Economists say that recent migrants have also blunted the worst effects of post-pandemic inflation.


Legal immigration today is close to impossible for most people. David J. Bier of the Cato Institute recently estimated that around 3 percent of the people who tried to move permanently to the United States were able to do so legally. “Legal immigration is less like waiting in line and more like winning the lottery: It happens, but it is so rare that it is irrational to expect it in any individual case,” he wrote in a comprehensive review of the current regulations. He concludes that “trying the legal immigration system as an alternative to immigrating illegally is like playing Powerball as an alternative to saving for retirement.”

In other words, illegal immigration is the natural consequence of the conflict between America’s thirst for foreign labor and its strict immigration laws.


Until the 1920s, America received migrants with an almost open border. Our policies emphasized regulation, not restriction. A few general categories were barred from entry — polygamists and convicted criminals, for example — but almost everyone else was permitted to enter the United States and reside indefinitely. The move toward restriction began in 1882 with laws that targeted the Chinese then evolved to exclude almost every other national group as well.

Cited and related links:

  1. nytimes.com

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Comments on "America would be better off if we got rid of U.S. Customs and Border Protection and ICE.":

  1. by oldedude on October 1, 2023 11:11 pm
    Curt still appreciates and condones human trafficking to support his true love of 10 year old little boys. This is why he would want this. Open borders mean he can receive his "gifts" from every part of the world without hindrances from the feds, and he can be open about how much he (truly) loves the little children of the world.

    He gets off on the rape trees. Just thinking about them gets him off. Although I'm pretty sure he buying more of the asian little boys because they're easier to have in the wastelands of Ashland and the surrounding area. They'd be cheaper if there wasn't any law prohibiting them or buying them on an open market. And when he's done with them, it's easier to burn and bury their bodies in his back yard. Without question.


  2. by islander on October 2, 2023 3:52 am

    olddude is one sick puppy.


  3. by HatetheSwamp on October 2, 2023 5:00 am

    isle,

    Biting humor. Over your head. And, it makes the point, vividly. But, it's okay. We're used to you. To paraphrase Billy Joel, "We luv you just the way you are."

    On point, though.

    The immigration issue is proof that the Swamp is dysfunctional and corrupt. A huuuuuuuuuge majority of American citizens want immigration reform and all SwampBlues and SwampReds can think to do is attempt to score political points...and, you fall for it.

    Wake up, SwampLovers.


  4. by oldedude on October 2, 2023 5:55 am
    These are comments on the first paragraph, which are the old, strawman standbys.

    American consumers benefit from these systems every time they find exceptionally inexpensive ways to get their lawns cut, their bathrooms cleaned, their houses built, their apples picked, their nails painted and their young and old cared for. The prices we pay for these services have been subsidized for generations by transnational migrants. In 2015, economists at Texas A&M concluded that if immigrant labor were eliminated from the dairy industry, the retail price of milk would nearly double. More recently, in Florida, construction projects stalled and their costs rose after the state passed new laws targeting undocumented residents. Economists say that recent migrants have also blunted the worst effects of post-pandemic inflation.

    I find it interesting that you are willing to support oil to whatever way it can and raise the cost for the low and middle income. What you're talking about makes it cheaper for the rich.

    Oil is okay to raise, but milk prices aren't? Oh, and the manni/petti places with the girls that can't speak english? Yeah, that's their day job. Most of them are also in forced prostitution by the "owners" of both the nail salon and the girls.

    It is actually a crime to employ undocumented workers. Today. Now. FL was willing to take the risk to employ only those registered with the government as our laws say. People getting their lawns cut, etc are willing to pay the difference NOT to have someone that refuses to register with the federal government.


  5. by islander on October 2, 2023 6:31 am

    You bring up some very good points Curt. They clearly show the need for and the importance of comprehensive immigration reform.


  6. by HatetheSwamp on October 2, 2023 6:41 am

    isle,

    Bang on. That's the one thing SS posters agreed on from the beginning but, it seems to me that the Swamp, both SwampBlues and SwampReds, ain't a micro millimeter closer to it than it was back in the day.

    It's time to drop the insanity. It's long past time to HatetheSwamp.


  7. by Donna on October 2, 2023 7:56 am

    od: Your opening post is debased and slanderous. I don't understand why Curt puts up with you.



  8. by HatetheSwamp on October 2, 2023 8:03 am

    Donna,

    You don't understand humor by hyperbole and absurdity.

    Back in the day, progressivism was humor's homebase. Lenny Bruce. George Carlin.

    Now, those of you whole claim to be progressive, couldn't see an attempt to tickle the funny bone with a neutron microscope.

    Shame on you!


  9. by Donna on October 2, 2023 8:06 am

    It's sad that you think od's opening post was funny.



  10. by Ponderer on October 2, 2023 8:07 am

    "Curt still appreciates and condones human trafficking to support his true love of 10 year old little boys. This is why he would want this. Open borders mean he can receive his "gifts" from every part of the world without hindrances from the feds, and he can be open about how much he (truly) loves the little children of the world.

    He gets off on the rape trees. Just thinking about them gets him off. Although I'm pretty sure he buying more of the asian little boys because they're easier to have in the wastelands of Ashland and the surrounding area. They'd be cheaper if there wasn't any law prohibiting them or buying them on an open market. And when he's done with them, it's easier to burn and bury their bodies in his back yard. Without question."
    -olde dude


    When it comes to all the MAGA Hat projection that we've seen presented in this forum that totally gives away the disgusting thoughts and sickness of these despicable flaming Republican assholes, I think this one has got to take the prize for the year. Congratulations, olde dude.

    olde dude, would you mind explaining for us, from your vast personal, hands-on knowledge of the subject, just exactly what a "rape tree" is? I don't think any of us here have ever heard that term before.

    You know what? On second thought, it might be better if you just keep it to yourself. We don't want to become unwitting accessories to your criminal hobby and activities.

    Apparently, projecting your heinous attributes onto others is such a reflexive and predominant attribute inherent in your makeup that it doesn't matter how much of your secret inner life you give away. I bet you couldn't even stop yourself from writing that, could you.


    olde dude had so little to respond with on this subject that his flaming projection kicked in right off the bat in this instance. He couldn't think of an intelligent response to save his life, so he just took his most disgusting and immoral personal characteristic and projected it smack onto Curt. Just like what all Republicans do when they have nothing to argue with. As if that was his best way to win a debate. Like it had anything to do with the subject Curt posted on at all. Like he did anything other than give away his own disgusting and highly illegal sexual predilections. How disgusting and deplorable.



    "isle,

    Biting humor. Over your head."
    -Hate


    So you thought any of that was actually funny, Bill??? Got a big laugh out of it did you? "Biting humor" about raping little boys is a subject of mirth for you in the social circles you frequent I suppose? Cracking wise with others around the checkout stand about molesting children is a proper topic of conversation in your neck of the woods is it? Is that what gets you off, you despicably sickfuck? Are you flaming assholes so psychologically demented that you think raping children is a proper subject of jokes?

    I'm sorry. But I've just had it with you two sick fuckingassholes.



    I've stayed in here as long as I have because I have always seen Hate and olde dude as average representatives of their political party to discuss things with and get a good idea of what their party is about. So I'm extremely tempted to simply assume that all Republicans are as obscenely disgusting and immoral as these two are. I certainly wouldn't be coming to that conclusion solely on the basis of how immoral these two are in here. I mean it's not like I have been confronted with their illegal sexual proclivities whenever I discuss things with any other Republicans elsewhere. But given all the disgusting sexual acts that Republicans have been caught in and accused of lately, their worship of an orange pedophile ans such, that I'm beginning to be of the opinion that painting with such a broad brush may well be called for in this instance.

    I'm actually coming to the conclusion that the Republican party simply attracts sexual predators and child molesters the same way it attracts Nazis, insurrectionists, and white supremacists.






  11. by Ponderer on October 2, 2023 8:09 am

    "You don't understand humor by hyperbole and absurdity.

    Back in the day, progressivism was humor's homebase. Lenny Bruce. George Carlin."
    -Hate

    I challenge you to come up with a single joke that either of those two giants of comedy ever told that involved children being raped, you sickfuck.




  12. by Ponderer on October 2, 2023 8:18 am

    What you don't understand, Bill, as we have told you time and time again, is that conservatives should never attempt humor. It always gets you in trouble and it's never even funny.

    Not that olde dude was even trying to be funny. He was just trying to accuse Curt of the most disgusting things that he himself has done. How else does od know so much about how much it costs to get him a young Asian boy? He's even aware of the general costs around the country.

    I just hope that od doesn't give away so much that we have to alert the authorities.


  13. by Donna on October 2, 2023 8:20 am

    Even Hts never goes off the rails like od just did in that cowardly attack on Curt. It sounds to me like olde dude has serious psychological issues. I hope he gets the help he needs.






  14. by Ponderer on October 2, 2023 8:28 am

    "I hope he gets the help he needs. " -Donna

    Well he sure won't get it in Florida.

    As the grave digger in Hamlet said about Hamlet's madness, it "will not be seen in him there; there the men are as mad as he".


  15. by Ponderer on October 2, 2023 8:31 am

    Anyway,

    Curt, you made an excellent point. We've seen how much our economy gets screwed over whenever undocumented migrants are not allowed to work or kept from working out of fear. They are an integral part of our economy that the right just doesn't want to face and admit. A good legal way for them to come here and work would benefit everyone.



  16. by Curt_Anderson on October 2, 2023 8:33 am
    OD makes a very persuasive argument for continuing our restrictive immigration policies…if you have a four year old intellect or if you are virulently xenophobic.

    His theory that ending restrictive immigration policies encourages coyotes and human trafficking is as logical as saying the 21st amendment which repealed prohibition encouraged bootlegging and speakeasies.


  17. by HatetheSwamp on October 2, 2023 8:36 am

    po and Donna,

    Ideology notwithstanding, I'd happily grant Curt honorary GOP membership. The GOP is the home of openness and inclusion, acceptance, tolerance, diversity and, most of all...FREETHINKING...and Curt's site, SS, allows for all of that. You don't. I continue to hope that, through your participation in a site where freedom rings, you'll see the light. But, no. Not yet.

    Curt was the object of OD's biting jabs and still accepts them in the spirit in which they were offered...something GOPs do as naturally as breathing, but Dems can't do.

    Goooooooooooo, Curt! Thanks. Youdaman!


  18. by Donna on October 2, 2023 9:07 am

    Perfect analogy, Curt. 👍


  19. by oldedude on October 2, 2023 9:20 am
    First curt- I don't think it's at all xenophobic to care for the lives of human beings, which you apparently don't.

    Second, since your lead paragraph is all about how the poor rich people in the US "may" pay higher prices on the things they want, while leaving the poor and middle class in the US helpless to pay the extra costs. Again, I'm the one thinking about human beings. You and others like you are the racists that doesn't give two shits about the little brown, black, and yellow people.

    But then again, you're from OR, [t]he history of racism in Oregon began before the territory even became a U.S. state. The topic of race was heavily discussed during the convention where the Oregon Constitution was written in 1857. In 1859, Oregon became the only state to enter the Union with a black exclusion law, although there were many other states that had tried before, especially in the Midwest. The Willamette Valley was notorious for hosting white supremacist hate groups. Discrimination and segregation were common occurrences against people of Indigenous, African, Mexican, Hawaiian, and Asian descent. Portland, the largest city in the state, continues to have one of the largest proportions of white residents of major U.S. cities.

    This is like talking racism to a bunch of folks with white hoods.
    en.wikipedia.org


  20. by Ponderer on October 2, 2023 9:23 am

    "The GOP is the home of openness and inclusion, acceptance, tolerance, diversity and, most of all...FREETHINKING..." -Hate

    Okay. I'll admit it. You have that one joke that was actually funny. The first time I read it I spit up my coffee a little I couldn't keep from laughing.

    But you really need to get some new material. It was funny the first or second time you've posted it. But you've just driven that same joke into the ground to such a degree that now you simply look like some sort of retard mental patient because it's starting to look like you actually believe that flaming bullshit.



  21. by Ponderer on October 2, 2023 9:25 am

    Pretty funny, eh Curt? That olde dude is trying to make supposed racism in Oregon out to be worse than his pedophile predilections...?


  22. by oldedude on October 2, 2023 9:49 am
    The first paragraph was all about economic trash curt could agree with the chinese, and drug cartels about. That's where he gets his information, even though he's stupid enough not to actually know that. Just look who's making money (BILLIONS $ per year). And of course, God forbid he list the health care, and schools that are not paid for except for those paying taxes (it's illegal to hire someone without a social security number).

    On to the second paragraph.

    Legal immigration today is close to impossible for most people.
    On this, curt and I agree. Having members of the family actually go through this crossword puzzle of rules, lawyers invested in NOT getting their clients citizenship, and many other issues. Two women in my family are immigrants. And I've know several others. Some DACA, some work VISAs (J1, J2 types).

    DACA first. My view which would significantly help a vast number of folks is to change DACA rules. My view is for now, the people apply on a short form, list birthplace, residences in the past 5-10 years (however you can get congress to agree) with fingerprints and picture. Maybe even a quick DNA swab. State Dept (or Homeland Security, whatever's cleaver) runs all the information. The Peruvian niece in law falls under this. She hasn't even had a traffic ticket in her life. Bad news for her, mom gave her a fake SSN (not her fault). If you haven't been arrested, or have a criminal record, etc, get them citizenship. They've proved through their actions they should be allowed in.


    In other words, illegal immigration is the natural consequence of the conflict between America’s thirst for foreign labor and its strict immigration laws.
    curt (et al, because several jumped on the homer bandwagon), you have to look who make the most money on illegal immigration. Not just the stuff said, but really, who makes billions of dollars on this scheme? Think hard, because you've been agreeing with the slave owners for years. You've bought off on every lie they've told you and refuse to budge.

    It's organized crime (Russian, Chinese, Latino, white Americans), politicians (same group), cartels, those in charge of the borders (Mexican, American, Canadian, Native American).

    When my daughter-in-law swore her oath to the US, I was at a veterans organization speaking. I mentioned she had been granted citizenship and had been sworn in and got a standing ovation. This coming from the staunch right. They believe there needs to be a legal way in that is much easier than what it is now.

    So I agree with curt. There has to be an easier way in for those not using coyotes.


  23. by Donna on October 2, 2023 9:49 am

    Yeah - Shame on you, Curt, for living in a state that officially condoned racism over 150 years ago!






  24. by oldedude on October 2, 2023 9:51 am
    Pretty funny, eh Curt? That olde dude is trying to make supposed racism in Oregon out to be worse than his pedophile predilections...?
    Actually, I'm just saying that you and curt are some of the biggest racists I've ever known of.


  25. by HatetheSwamp on October 2, 2023 10:08 am

    What you don't understand, Bill, as we have told you time and time again, is that conservatives should never attempt humor. It always gets you in trouble and it's never even funny.

    This is, as po'd say, EFFINperfect. What crystal clear sanctimony.

    po's Law of Comedy: "It's only comedy if I think it's funny."

    Youdabomb, po.

    Bahahahahahahahahahaha baha baha baha ha!


  26. by HatetheSwamp on October 2, 2023 10:10 am

    ...you and curt are some of the biggest racists I've ever known of.

    They're definitely in the top, what?, ten percentile.


  27. by Curt_Anderson on October 2, 2023 10:17 am
    Donna and Ponderer,
    “...you and curt are some of the biggest racists I've ever known of.” My son will be surprised to hear that! How will your minority friends take it?


  28. by Ponderer on October 2, 2023 10:19 am

    "Actually, I'm just saying that you and curt are some of the biggest racists I've ever known of. " -olde dude

    Sorry. Your pedophelia beats out any fictional racism that you might asininely attribute to Curt or I. Nice try though.




  29. by Indy! on October 2, 2023 10:22 am

    I'm all for eliminating any of the far too many police orgs we have in this country. And 100% against trees raping people too.


  30. by Ponderer on October 2, 2023 10:24 am

    Yeah, Indy!. You'd think that they'd cut such trees down if they were committing sexual felonies like that.


  31. by oldedude on October 2, 2023 10:28 am
    “...you and curt are some of the biggest racists I've ever known of.” My son will be surprised to hear that! How will your minority friends take it?

    The truth is that you ARE racists because you believe they should come into this country without being able to get a legal job and earn a living, just like your dim ancestors did after the civil war and created "truck farming." You haven't changed a bit. 'cause they just little brown, black, and yella people.

    I'm for giving people a system they can get jobs and make a better life for themselves and their families.

    And curt, it sounds like oragone was a worse place than Macon, GA for supremacy. You're living there by choice. mmmm............


  32. by HatetheSwamp on October 2, 2023 10:31 am

    As Mork from Ork would say, "Ah, humor. R R!"

    Na nu na nu.

    It's not funny...to me, po...but, I affirm your right to try.


  33. by oldedude on October 2, 2023 10:32 am
    and Indy. the slavery doesn't stop on the border. That's the piece apparently people wish to not believe. The ones that are brought over as sex slaves stay that way until they get too old. Then they get a hotshot and thrown in a dumpster. But so far, none of the sheep will protect them. Ya know, them "dims are the party for people! (as long as they vote dimmycrat). If they don't vote, fuckem! They're of no use to us!"


  34. by oldedude on October 2, 2023 11:59 am
    jjpo- Yeah, Indy!. You'd think that they'd cut such trees down if they were committing sexual felonies like that.
    Yeah, that's how I would see a woman supporting other women being raped and sexually abused. You mock the abused, and support the abuser. Good job (sic) curt!

    ‘You Have to Pay With Your Body’: The Hidden Nightmare of Sexual Violence on the Border
    By Manny Fernandez
    Leer en español
    MCALLEN, Tex. — It was dark in the stash house where they kept her, the windows covered so no one could see inside. At first, the smugglers had her cook for the other migrants who had recently crossed illegally into the United States. Then they took her to a room upstairs, locked the door and began taking turns with her.

    It was the summer of 2014, and Melvin, a 36-year-old mother of three, had just completed the journey from her native Guatemala, crossing the Rio Grande on a raft before being led to the house in the Texas border city of McAllen.

    For weeks in that locked room, the men she had paid to get her safely to the United States drugged her with pills and cocaine, refusing to let her out even to bathe. “I think that since they put me in that room, they killed me,” she said. “They raped us so many times they didn’t see us as human beings anymore.”

    On America’s southern border, migrant women and girls are the victims of sexual assaults that most often go unreported, uninvestigated and unprosecuted. Even as women around the world are speaking out against sexual misconduct, migrant women on the border live in the shadows of the #MeToo movement.

    nytimes.com
    azborderdefenders.org
    View Video


  35. by Indy! on October 2, 2023 8:23 pm

    It's comical that you're attacking me when I've always said the way to cut down on the illegal immigration is simple - don't let people hire them. Exactly what you were just praising your Mickey Mouse-voice pal Ron DiSantis for doing here in Florida. 😂

    And I've never denied women are taken advantage of when they come here illegally. Perhaps if you anti-immigration people were willing to spend a little cash to protect them instead of locking them up, there would be less of that going on - no? 🤔


  36. by Curt_Anderson on October 2, 2023 9:09 pm
    "It's comical that you're attacking me when I've always said the way to cut down on the illegal immigration is simple - don't let people hire them." --Indy

    I am sure you are serious but how would you do that? There are all sorts of jobs that cannot be filled that immigrants are happy to do including work in construction, agriculture, gardening, hospitality, restaurants, etc. The immigrant employees won't report it. The employers won't turn themselves in.

    Didn't DeSantis sign some anti-immigrant law that caused an ag worker shortage to pick the crops down there?



  37. by oldedude on October 2, 2023 9:33 pm
    Didn't DeSantis sign some anti-immigrant law that caused an ag worker shortage to pick the crops down there?

    You don't know if you said was correct? after all the bullshit you give lead and I? Remind me you must cite all the rest of your posts. Forever.


  38. by Curt_Anderson on October 2, 2023 9:49 pm
    OD,
    I asked a question. I didn't present it as a purported fact as some here do.


  39. by oldedude on October 3, 2023 6:19 am

    I am sure you are serious but how would you do that? There are all sorts of jobs that cannot be filled that immigrants are happy to do including work in construction, agriculture, gardening, hospitality, restaurants, etc.
    The perfect thought of an elitist prig. We had one rule growing up, and for my son's also. You have to have a job in the service industry for at least a summer. I worked in restaurants (as a busboy/dishwasher) and had a paper route. My sister picked chili peppers for a summer. Not being above others makes a person realize how to treat people.

    The difference between our thoughts on this is I am for LEGAL immigration, which affords a chance for us not to bring in rapists, murderers, chinese agents, and terrorists. AND it affords a pathway to citizenship. IknowIknow... There "aren't that many of "them" but the facts are there are greater numbers on the watchlist coming in.

    There are programs that allow immigrants to come into the US to work in those jobs legally and vetted. They are working in those jobs and are not slaves to their owners.

    Your thoughts are to let them in and they fend for themselves. You've never given a though to how we handle them after they're here. They are a stress on local communities, especially small towns on the border. Much less so on NYC, SF, LA, Chicago, etc, and yet these cities are screaming foul and activating the National Guard to help.

    Since they have no visible means of support, they are stressing hospitals and school districts. Especially systems in the poorer areas that don't have the funding to begin with.

    The immigrant employees won't report it. The employers won't turn themselves in.

    This is one of the issues. Illegals are NOT paying taxes to pay for these services and are driving the cost of living way up for those employed and earning a living legally. (for the 3d? 4th time, you can't have a legal job without a social security number) I would be interested in your thoughts on how this "helps" the US.

    You're all for keeping people in slavery. Dead-end jobs that will get them nowhere in life. You're looking for cheap slavery. I'm looking for helping human beings with a quality of life.
    nbcnews.com


  40. by Curt_Anderson on October 3, 2023 8:10 am
    “ This is one of the issues. Illegals are NOT paying taxes to pay for these services and are driving the cost of living way up for those employed and earning a living legally. ”. —-OD

    You’re dead wrong there. People who have low wage jobs and that includes people who work in agriculture, the service industries, etc. do not earn enough to pay income tax. However, they still have to pay sales tax and other local taxes. They also pay indirect taxes: for example, they may not be paying property taxes directly, but property taxes are built into their rent which they pay their landlord.

    For the same reason that illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than non-immigrants, they are not accessing governmental services. The reason is they want to stay under the radar and away from any sort of governmental authorities or even services.


  41. by Donna on October 3, 2023 11:38 am

    "You're all for keeping people in slavery. Dead-end jobs that will get them nowhere in life." - olde dude

    Yet they come up here by the millions, knowing that they'll work dead end jobs, because that's still WAY better than what they had to endure.

    Most jobs Americans work are pretty much shitty paying dead-end jobs. I work a job like that - have for the last 10 years. America would crumble overnight without us.

    So be nice to retail workers, especially this coming holiday season. We're all overworked, underpaid, taken for granted, and our employers don't give a shit about us.


  42. by oldedude on October 3, 2023 12:06 pm
    HEAR!HEAR!

    I think that includes everyone that works any part of retail.


  43. by Indy! on October 5, 2023 8:46 am
    Curt...

    I am sure you are serious but how would you do that? There are all sorts of jobs that cannot be filled that immigrants are happy to do including work in construction, agriculture, gardening, hospitality, restaurants, etc. The immigrant employees won't report it. The employers won't turn themselves in.

    Didn't DeSantis sign some anti-immigrant law that caused an ag worker shortage to pick the crops down there?



    You do realize your two paragraphs negate each other, right? If we couldn't enforce the laws - how was an ag worker shortage created in Florida when DiSantis passed the law? 🤔 The reason we've never TRIED to stop it (and why all the "border" debates and hand-wringing are nothing more than just more gov't kabuki theater used to divide the populace) - is because we (the country) need the slave labor to keep prices (food, maid/janitorial services, construction) reasonable.

    Loved the OD post, btw. You "had" to work a service job to know what regular folks are like. Lower yourself down to their (our) level for at least one summer. 😂


  44. by Donna on October 6, 2023 7:04 am

    Capitalism will always maintain an underclass, and those who aren't part of that underclass will never give a damn about them.


  45. by Ponderer on October 6, 2023 7:12 am

    "If we couldn't enforce the laws - how was an ag worker shortage created in Florida when DiSantis passed the law?" -Indy!

    Fear, Indy!. The shortage was created because of the fear of undocumented workers of being caught. They weren't willing to sit around and wait to see how intensely the law was going to be enforced.


  46. by oldedude on October 6, 2023 8:42 am
    Indy- I guess you did your work with the drug lords for you mom, right?

    Donna- Capitalism will always maintain an underclass, and those who aren't part of that underclass will never give a damn about them.

    I find it funny it's the dims on this site that WANT the slave culture, just like they did in the civil war. It scares them too much to have it any other way. What's even funnier, is that at least Donna, is working in one of those jobs. I would think there would be some support for getting rid of the slave trade from her. And the treatment of the slaves hasn't gotten any better in 180 years. And contrary to their beliefs, immigrants are not wanting to be slaves. Not the ones that own family businesses, or the ones that work hard to get their kids a US education (as horrible as that is).

    There are VISAs available that allow day workers, ag industry, janitorial services to be hired by ethical companies that are willing to pay them US standard wages (not the dollar or two per hour without benefits). This is steady work for folks that are vetted and do this for years. When the kids grow up, they have a much better life because they have a US HS diploma. Maybe more.

    So again... Unlock yourselves from the prison of two ideas.


  47. by Donna on October 6, 2023 8:46 am

    None of what you said has anything to do with the part of my post you quoted in bold.



  48. by Ponderer on October 6, 2023 8:49 am

    That's just how od rolls.


  49. by oldedude on October 6, 2023 8:55 am
    Other than you're justifying the use of slavery.


  50. by Donna on October 6, 2023 9:09 am

    What a crazy statement, od. Unlike Curt, I support having borders and enforcing immigration laws.


  51. by oldedude on October 6, 2023 10:58 am
    You’re dead wrong there. People who have low wage jobs and that includes people who work in agriculture, the service industries, etc. do not earn enough to pay income tax.

    First. They don't have a anyone asking for a W2. It's not that they don't make enough, they're being paid under the table🙄. I've only harped on that about a half dozen times. This is where the prostitution comes in. Much like the miners in yesteryear, the owner has a "town" that has all their needs, including a brothel. Everything else is part of working there for almost nothing. Most of the times, they are fed and housed by the owner. They're not paid enough purchase anything.

    You need to understand that most of the people you talk about are either conscripted or slaves directly. Their income is owned by the owner, not them. They will go to the hospitals though.

    The "legal" folks have the ability to work above board and actually earn a wage. They have to file their taxes (which they don't make enough money to your point).


  52. by oldedude on October 6, 2023 11:08 am
    "You're all for keeping people in slavery. Dead-end jobs that will get them nowhere in life." - olde dude

    Yet they come up here by the millions, knowing that they'll work dead end jobs, because that's still WAY better than what they had to endure.


    So you agree with them coming in like this. and being owned for the rest of their lives. That's pretty clear.


  53. by Indy! on October 6, 2023 11:21 am

    Pondy - Fear is actually how MOST laws are "enforced". Put the fear of losing a business license into business owners and they'll be less likely to hire illegals too. It all works - but it starts with actually trying to eliminate the problem. When we don't try - it means we really don't want it to happen. Like with universal healthcare - nobody is really trying. Like AOC "raising a ruckus" - she's not even trying.


    OD - Let's start here... Old Dud, the guy always trying to pass himself off as some kind world class hero - a military vet (allegedly), a guy fighting child prostitution (so he can talk about it all the time - always a red flag for pedophiles), the drug trade and every other crime his vivid imagination can conjure up - starts his conversation where? By attacking my family again...

    by oldedude on October 6, 2023 8:42 am
    Indy- I guess you did your work with the drug lords for you mom, right?


    Because that's who he really is - a sad little pathetic "man" trying to convince everyone he’s the big hero. Now let's address what he said...

    OD:
    The perfect thought of an elitist prig. We had one rule growing up, and for my son's also. You have to have a job in the service industry for at least a summer. I worked in restaurants (as a busboy/dishwasher) and had a paper route. My sister picked chili peppers for a summer. Not being above others makes a person realize how to treat people.

    I had a job delivering newspapers when at 12yrs old. My first "real" job (with a W2, etc...) was at McDonald's - they love to hire ignorant kids so they can work them like slaves - at age 15. So before OD even thought about "service work" he "had" to do for one summer 😂 - I had already done it on my own. No lectures, pressure or threats necessary from my family because my family does it without being told. So, again - as always - the welfare queen can't keep up with me even in his (wettest) dreams. Now - if you want to hear about all the other "service" jobs I've done in my life while you were policing up cigarette buts on the base for your lifetime welfare checks and free healthcare in-between getting buggered in your cot every night by the real men in your barracks, OD? Just say the word.


  54. by Ponderer on October 6, 2023 12:35 pm

    "Pondy - Fear is actually how MOST laws are "enforced". Put the fear of losing a business license into business owners and they'll be less likely to hire illegals too. It all works - but it starts with actually trying to eliminate the problem. When we don't try - it means we really don't want it to happen. Like with universal healthcare - nobody is really trying. Like AOC "raising a ruckus" - she's not even trying." -Indy!


    Well... You asked, "If we couldn't enforce the laws - how was an ag worker shortage created in Florida when DiSantis passed the law?", and I gave you the answer.

    I didn't realize just how many other questions you were secretly asking that supposedly went without saying. Or that AOC had anything to do with my answer.

    Forgive me.




  55. by Indy! on October 6, 2023 8:18 pm

    You're welcome. 🙂


  56. by oldedude on October 6, 2023 8:39 pm
    indy. you were still working off mommie's debt to the cartel when you weren't good enough to. It took you twenty years to actually earn that much. By then you were just their little butt boy. Was your moniker bitch? Cause you should have died 10 years ago or so from several viruses.


  57. by oldedude on October 6, 2023 8:41 pm
    and your mommy just let you do what you ask her to do to you. Because you wanted to be treated like a cheap whore like her.


  58. by Indy! on October 7, 2023 8:19 am

    You're trying to hard, OD. It's that military brainwashing training that makes you see every problem as a nail - your hard head being perfect to use as the hammer.


  59. by oldedude on October 8, 2023 7:12 pm
    Actually, I see what you can't. Is it global? or just multinational? Or is it local? And who are the players? and what are the objectives of each player? Who has the most formal power? Who has the most informal power? Who is the puppeteer? What's the culture of the situation? How are you (who has zero experience outside of the US/Mihammi) looking at the situation? And what do my Thoughts have on the subject and how can I minimize them for an accurate assessment?

    So if that looks like a nail to you, so be it. I think you're juvenile and something happened at six years old that made you stay and you haven't moved on.


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