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For any Christians who we might have in the forum... By Ponderer August 18, 2023 8:22 am Category: Religion (0.0 from 0 votes) Rules of the Post Write A New Article How To Post Here

Romans 16:17,18

17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.


It has been quite something watching how the Christian Right Wing of this country for the most part went so all in, hook, line, and sinker, for the wildly unchristian and inhumane massages that Trump was selling. Suddenly it was alright for Christians to hate their fellow man and to completely ignore all of Jesus's teachings.

Although, it's of course not the first time that The Faithful have given in to such a huckster. Trump is a Golden Calf if there ever was one. And boy oh boy did the religious right in this country put him up on a pedestal or what??? He came along and suddenly everything they learned in Sunday School went right out the window. They couldn't crown him their king fast enough.

And all he had to do was tell them exactly what they wanted to hear. He simply fed into their ingrained paranoias and bigoted views and they gave him the key to the city.

It's hard to imagine a more ungodly man in this country than he is. Few in politics have ever been so heinously and sociopathically inhuman and devoid of any shred of empathy whatsoever. Few in politics have ever been so brazenly criminal and immoral and so totally narcissistic.

If Trump was sent by God, it's been terribly misread by Jesus's flock. It could well be that he was sent here as a test... which a great deal of Jesus's followers have failed utterly. Pride, Greed, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth... Trump not only excels in these sins, he is a veritable poster boy for them. Love, Empathy, Selflessness, Humility, Charity, Chastity, Gratitude, Temperance, Patience, and Diligence and all other Christ-like attributes are absolutely foreign concepts to him. In fact, he believes such attributes are for "chumps".

But the religious right in this country couldn't care less. They couldn't melt all their jewelry down fast enough to give him and make him what he has become. Jesus and the Bible couldn't matter less to a rally full of Trump supporters. Unless of course they want to use the Bible as justification to attack some minority that they don't like sharing the planet with. Not that they could show you a single passage in the whole book that supports what they are doing if their lives depended on it.

The problem I see for these right wing Christians who love Trump so much is that this time around, there ain't gonna be no Moses coming down to show them the errors of their ways. Not that anyone or anything ever could achieve such a herculean task.

No, I think God is just gonna let them simmer in the soup that they have made for themselves till the pot boils over and they realize what they have done to themselves and this country.

At which point I imagine Matthew 7:21-23 will come into play.

Comments Start Below

by HatetheSwamp on August 18, 2023 8:45 am mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine... ...the wildly unchristian and inhumane massages that Trump was selling. Wow, gang! Talk about the blending of Church and State! Donald Trump: A False American Prophet! po, You are giving new meaning to the notion of a "fascistic and disgusting" "Christian theocrat." by Ponderer on August 18, 2023 9:00 am Matthew 7:6 “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.” And yet I did it anyway. by HatetheSwamp on August 18, 2023 9:25 am You're a bad AmericoChristian. Bless me, Biden, for I have sinned, eh!!!!!? by Ponderer on August 18, 2023 9:53 am There's no need for you to project the right's cultist reverence for Trump onto me, Bill. Wait a second. What am I saying? Of course there is. Projection is an autonomic reflex for you anymore. For you and the whole MAGA Republican party. But then... far be it from me to intercede with whatever mental gymnastics you need to do to try to justify the right's canonization of Saint Donald the Orange. You go right ahead and you be you, Bill. by HatetheSwamp on August 18, 2023 10:11 am There's no need for you to project the right's cultist reverence for Trump onto me, Bill. Uh, po. This is your, as you'd say, effinTHREAD. All of this blending of politics and faith is, entirely, yours. 100%. Period. And, let me just say this about that, and let me make this perfectly clear: Donna and you are the only posters here on SS who ever, ever, effinEVER, propose the blending of Bible teaching and American politics, exactly as you do here. EffinEVER! by Ponderer on August 18, 2023 10:16 am Whatever you say, Bill. Whatever you say. I musta made the whole thing up. 🙄 "Evangelical leaders gather to pray for Trump at White House" by HatetheSwamp on August 18, 2023 10:27 am Inequitable comparison...by a looooooooong shot! C'mon man. Gimme a break. Supporting a President ain't attempting to create a theocracy. You're revealing who you are and how you think by making that leap. by Ponderer on August 18, 2023 11:08 am So Bill, you don't think that Evangelical Christians are calling any shots when there's a Republican in charge of any part of our government? This current attack against reproductive rights is purely an evangelical Christian plot, with the help and support of Christian politicians, to do away with a woman's right to choose. That in itself doesn't make us a theocracy. But such policies are indeed theocratic. Make no mistake. Evangelical Christians in places of authority were the sole enemies of the constitutionally protected right to marry someone of the same sex. And they had nothing to defend their attacks on but the Bible. Which in a court of law is irrelevant. And those are just the biggies. Evangelical Christians are working on every level of government all over the country to bring about the dogma that they adhere to into our laws. Bill, you are a blithering idiot if you don't think that Christianity and our government haven't been blended in demonstrable ways to some poor minority's detriment. Thanks, evangelical theocrats in our government...!!! Thirteen-year-old girl is forced to give birth under Mississippi abortion ban A 13-year-old girl who just gave birth — after being denied an abortion under Mississippi’s ban — is about to start seventh grade. The girl, who Time called Ashley as a pseudonym, was raped in the fall of 2022 by a stranger in the yard outside of her home after he grabbed her and covered her mouth, the outlet reported. Ashley used to love being outside, especially to make TikToks, but after that fall, it became hard for her to want to leave her bedroom. She started complaining to her mother about not feeling well. “She just said, ‘It hurts,’” her mother, dubbed Regina, recalled to the outlet. “She was crying in her room. I asked her what was wrong, and she said she didn’t want to tell me.” Regina even said she asked Ashley if she thought she was pregnant—with the caveat that Regina had never had the conversation with Ashley about how one could even become pregnant. “They need to be kids,” Regina reflected to Time. By 11 January, the teen started throwing up so much that it prompted Regina to take her to the emergency room. Blood tests indicated that Ashley was pregnant; that’s how Regina found out. The on-call gynecologist determined Ashley was 10 or 11 weeks along. She recalled to Time: “It was surreal for her…She just had no clue.” A week later at a follow-up appointment, the mother asked the doctor if there was any way to terminate the pregnancy; but in Mississippi, on 27 July 2022, the state’s trigger ban went into effect, meaning all abortions, except to save the life of the pregnant person or in the cases of rape or incest that were reported to law enforcement, were prohibited. Shortly after discovering that her daughter had been raped, the outlet said, Regina filed a complaint with the police, but the investigation went nowhere. Authorities confirmed to Time that no arrests had been made in the case. Since the investigation is incomplete, police have not publicly confirmed that they believe Ashley’s pregnancy resulted from the rape. As the state’s last abortion provider shuttered in July 2022, following the trigger ban going into effect, the gynecologist told Regina that the closest abortion provider would be Chicago — which isn’t actually that close. The teen’s mother considered it, the outlet reported, but after calculating the price of the abortion, travel costs, and factoring in the fact that she would have to take off work, she decided against it. “I don’t have the funds for all this,” Regina told the outlet. So, the 13-year-old had no choice but to carry the baby. But Mississippi is a particularly risky place to have a child under any circumstance, and especially so under Ashley’s circumstances. According to KFF, Mississippi has the second-highest maternal-mortality rate in the nation—Arkansas, its neighbor, is the first. A study also showed that in the state, when compared to white mothers, Black mothers are four times more likely to die from reasons related to pregnancy. Still, the months went on and Ashley’s stomach grew as she finished sixth grade from her computer. “We’ve been keeping it quiet, because people judge wrong when they don’t know what’s going on,” Regina told Time. She’s been trying to keep Ashley away from “nosy people.” Regina even said that her family is unaware of the pregnancy: “It’s going to be a little private matter here.” Ashley delivered the baby over the weekend. When asked how it went she said succinctly: “Painful.” Even before the rape, Ashley had never talked much, but after, she became almost mute, her mother told the outlet. independent.co.uk by Ponderer on August 18, 2023 11:28 am Come on, Bill. If you aren't one of them, don't you weep for the poor, misguided Christian souls who have been fooled into practically worshiping such an immoral and degenerate con man whose only care about them is their vote, while thinking that they are going along with what God had in mind? by Indy! on August 18, 2023 11:42 am It's not even figurative - it's as freakin' literal as you can get... by HatetheSwamp on August 18, 2023 11:42 am Evangelical Christians in places of authority were the sole enemies of the constitutionally protected right to marry someone of the same sex. And they had nothing to defend their attacks on but the Bible. Which in a court of law is irrelevant. You're being irrational. You can't be this stoopid. Have you ever heard of Muslims? Roman Catholics? Orthodox Jews? Try cumin to what still remains of your senses. by Ponderer on August 18, 2023 12:52 pm What about them, Bill? Are you suggesting that those religions have anything like the effect on our government that Evangelical Christians do? Or that they were anywhere near as involved with trying to stop same sex marriage as evangelical Christians were? What was so irrational about what I said? by HatetheSwamp on August 18, 2023 1:07 pm po, Evangelical Christians in places of authority were the sole enemies... Both isle and you think about evangelicals the Nazis think about Jews and KKKers, uh, negroes. by oldedude on August 18, 2023 2:25 pm po #8- This current attack against reproductive rights is purely an evangelical Christian plot, with the help and support of Christian politicians, to do away with a woman's right to choose. That in itself doesn't make us a theocracy. But such policies are indeed theocratic. Make no mistake. Evangelical Christians in places of authority were the sole enemies of the constitutionally protected right to marry someone of the same sex. And they had nothing to defend their attacks on but the Bible. Which in a court of law is irrelevant. I disagree. I was going to mention the Muslims, etc. Like Lead, I would absolutely argue that Catholics ARE Christians, and they have the damnation thing going on. The Muslims are taught that if the mother dies, you still have the child. Killing the child is a sin punishable by death. Being gay (etc), is also a crime punishable by death. So marriage between two men, two women, being trans, dressing up as a drag queen, is also punishable by death. Women get stoned to death (which takes about an hour to die. She's half buried with her hands tied to her side so she can't protect herself. In the US, women either get beaten to death, stabbed to death, or their throats slit. We've talked about this before, especially in MN, MI (esp Detroit area/Hamtramck). journals.sagepub.com by HatetheSwamp on August 18, 2023 2:40 pm Don't bother po with objective facts. po's subjectivity is po's truth. by islander on August 18, 2023 3:04 pm Hate wrote:"Both isle and you think about evangelicals the [way] Nazis think about Jews and KKKers, uh, negroes." Nope. You have it backwards again, as usual. This is why I say you have TDS, the real thing, Trump Dyslexia Syndrome...You see things in reverse of what they actually are. Any evangelicals and other Christians who try to use the government to enforce their religious beliefs on others are NOT the victims here any more than the Nazis were the victims of the Jews. The 13 year old girl for example, and those of us who supported her are not Nazis persecuting the nationalist evangelicals. It's the other way around. This crystal clear example is something that, if you say don't understand, is not due to pure stupidity on your part, rather it's due to your being dishonest with yourself and your amazing aptitude for willful ignorance. If you're not honest with yourself, how can you possibly be honest with us or anyone else? And there is no excuse for that...It's the kind of person you freely chose to be. by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2023 4:07 am Hate wrote:"Both isle and you think about evangelicals the [way] Nazis think about Jews and KKKers, uh, negroes." -pb Any evangelicals and other Christians who try to use the government to enforce their religious beliefs on others are NOT the victims here any more than the Nazis were the victims of the Jews. -isle Two replies: First, isle. What you're saying is that evangelicals and Christians in general should be prohibited from participating in our "democracy." Don't deny it. Read your own, as po'd say, EFFINwords. The first liberty guaranteed by the Bill of Rights empowers people of faith to "exercise" their beliefs in our republic without the interference and intrusion of government. So there! pb's asked you oodles of times why, since you despise the radical principles upon which our republic is founded AND the EFFINliberties our Bill of Rights guarantees,... ...why you don't just move to Canada or Great Britain, where those principles and liberties ain't the way. Second, my comment was not about your political opposition to Christian beliefs but about your vicious hate of Christians, especially Evangelical Christians. In this country, where many of us love the liberties you hate, you are, as po'd say, EFFINfree to think what you think...even hate as you hate. You are guaranteed the liberty to speak that hate... ...but, I still ask, WHY!!!!!? by islander on August 19, 2023 5:51 am Hate ~ Your post above (#17), is a perfect example of your shameless intellectual dishonesty. Shameless in that you can post my very words and then in the next sentence claim that I said something that I did not say.. Your intellectual dishonesty is displayed to its fullest in your (now boring) calculating and conniving style when you lie not just about what I said, but about what I think and believe as well, clearly demonstrating that it's not just a lack of intellectual integrity, but a lack of moral integrity as well. Our country’s Constitution forbids Catholics for instance from forcing you to go to a priest, confess your sins, and then receive communion at least once a year, even though Catholics might believe God, through the Pope, said you must. Forbidding Catholics or any other religion from forcing you to comply with their beliefs, or forbidding Muslims from imposing Sharia law on us is NOT interfering with their religious liberties or beliefs. We ALL have the right to believe whatever we want, but we do not have the right to use our government to force others to believe or comply with those religious beliefs. Even if you believed that, like Abraham, God told you to kill your son, you would not be allowed to do that in our country and that would NOT be a violation of your right to practice your religion. by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2023 6:06 am Y'know isle. When you have your annual Medicare check up with your PCP, you take a mental acuity test. Two parts. I just passed mine. But, you? Mr. UNDERSTAND MAN!!!!!, you don't UNDERSTAND what even YOU write. Sheeeeeeeeeeeesh! by Ponderer on August 19, 2023 6:41 am "Evangelical Christians in places of authority were the sole enemies..." -me Apparently, Hate and olde dude take issue with this factual statistic I posted. Well, I would like to take this opportunity to have them present any other organized groups who they recall who actively sought, by use of petitions and legal motions, law suits and amendments or any other organized legally binding means, to stop Constitutionally allowed same sex marriage from being the law of the land. Yes, there may have been a scattered assortment of paranoid bigots and various homophobic sociopaths who considered themselves "enemies" of same sex marriage at the time. But these were not organized groups focused on taking away our civil rights. Bill, you gotta remember how it was. Remember those Christian appointed lawyers getting up there in court, trying to use Bible verses as some sort of legal argument because they had nothing else at all? And how they were laughed out of court as they had no legal standing or excuse to keep the civil right of marriage away from us? And how they spared no expense in trying to foist their religious dogma into our Constitution? You remember all that, don't you...? by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2023 6:57 am po, It's next to impossible to interact with your when you hype up those preferences and prejudices that you bring with you to every moment of your life. The truth is that the Roman Catholic Church has always behaved in an organically political way in our republic. That's plain, historical fact. Roman Catholicism has its roots in the conviction that Church and State are blended, that they collaborate and are mutually supportive. To this day, Evangelicals are novices compared to Catholics in political involvement. That's simply true. I understand. Your own background is within Protestantism but, po, historical truth is historical truth. by Ponderer on August 19, 2023 7:04 am Bill, you do realize of course that you in no way whatsoever came anywhere close to even addressing my request, don't you? I'll try again. Maybe you glossed over it unintentionally... Please present any other organized groups who you recall who actively sought, by use of petitions and legal motions, law suits and amendments or any other organized legally binding means, to stop Constitutionally allowed same sex marriage from being the law of the land. by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2023 7:17 am Noop. Not doin that. I'm not wasting a nanosecond on Google when what I've posted is obviously factual... ...when you're operating full on in those preferences and prejudices that you bring with you to every moment of your life. You're being deranged... living wholeheartedly in your subjectivity. It's a waste of my time and mind. ***** I will repeat, though, that this behavior of yours is what I envy in you...to be completely unabashed about denying reason, logic and fact to be subjective. But, still, when you do that, dialog ain't possible. by Ponderer on August 19, 2023 7:32 am Thanks, Bill. I knew I was right and that you wouldn't have a shred of anything to present to support your opposition to the fact I presented. All I needed was a good dose of your classic, time-honored, expert obfuscation and subject changing to concretely affirm it. 🖕😎🖕 by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2023 8:34 am Kierkegaard was right. Subjectivity is so truth. Thanks for flashing fingers at me. As the Beatles sang, ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE. View Video by Ponderer on August 19, 2023 8:56 am Forgive me, Bill. It's just that since you took so much issue with what I said being wrong that I naturally assumed that you were basing your opinion on something substantial that you were able to base your opinion on. If you don't think that Evangelical Christians were the sole enemy of same sex marriage, who were the others that you were thinking of when you raised your objection to what I said? It's just that I am not accustomed to making declarative statements asserting that someone is wrong without having a shred of evidence to base my opinion on. I'm not a Conservative, Bill. So making accusations without having any evidence doesn't come as naturally to me as it does to you. Again, forgive me. by islander on August 19, 2023 9:13 am Ponderer ~ As you and the rest of us can see, Hate refuses to, or as I'm beginning to think, is unable to debate or argue with you, me, or anyone else here honestly or with any intellectual integrity. In his reply to you (post #23) he presents another perfect example of, what I call, his TDS (Trump Dyslexia Syndrome) which causes him to see things in reverse. In Hate's post he thinks or at least claims to be describing you...But in realty, he is describing himself 'perfectly'. It seems to me that Hate takes his mantra literally, and actually thinks that his subjective beliefs represent truth whether they conform to reality or not. Somewhere along the line in his life Hate became fixated on his misinterpretation of Kierkegaard's "subjectivity is truth" and now he has no real concept of what truth even means. This is why it is impossible to have a reasonable or rational debate or conversation with him. by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2023 9:42 am If you don't think that Evangelical Christians were the sole enemy of same sex marriage, who were the others that you were thinking of when you raised your objection to what I said? po, That's what started this. Pay attention, man! I mentioned Roman Catholics. OD's been documenting the involvement of American Muslims in opposition to social wokeism. And, as I noted, Orthodox Jews. And, certainly, not every person who believes life begins at conception is a person of faith. Many secular people understand the science of life. Many secular people are politically conservative and oppose abortion and many understand that same sex marriage will, ultimately, damage the culture. Grooving on the progressive SwampMedia, as you do, you know nuthin about that. But, it's the truth. I know you have turned your back on your Protestant roots. Fine. But, the truth is that there's so much brouhaha over Evangelical involvement in social issues because many Evangelicals oppose the legislation of Christian values in politics. As, in fact, pb does. With Catholics, as I've proven, that's not the case. Fundamental to Catholic identity is the belief that the Church should involve itself in the matters of state. by Ponderer on August 19, 2023 9:53 am Bill, if you've got any examples of Muslims or Catholics who organized legal attempts to stop same sex marriage from becoming legal, just fuckingpost them already! I haven't been talking about people who simply don't like the idea or have it in their religion to hate the idea and you know it. I have been talking about the enemies of same sex marriage who organized and actively fought against it. I hate when you try to play stupid. You are being redundant, Bill! We already know that you're stupid. So pretending that you are simply highlights that you are. by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2023 11:10 am Let me make certain that I understand your question. Are you asking if American Catholics and Muslims actively opposed same sex marriage? Read #14. Are you calling OD an EFFINliar? by Ponderer on August 19, 2023 11:31 am "Let me make certain that I understand your question. Are you asking if American Catholics and Muslims actively opposed same sex marriage?" -Hate No. I'm not. I already know that they do. I have been asking for examples of any other religions or groups who actively organized a legal attack to keep same sex marriage illegal. I haven't been talking about parishioners in churches wailing in their pews, or Muslims decrying us to Allah in their mosques. I am talking about if any of these groups ever actively organized a legal assault against us in the courts or by other legal means. So, DID THEY? OR DID THEY NOT? Because when I said that Evangelical Christians were our sole enemy in making same sex marriage legal, examples of any other groups or religions attacking us legally are the only things pertinent to refuting my assertion. I don't know why you think playing dumb i Never mind. We've been through that already today. by oldedude on August 19, 2023 12:13 pm What about honor killings? It isn't "organized" or a "legal" attack, they're simply murdering members of their family. Does that count? by Ponderer on August 19, 2023 1:24 pm "Does that count?" -olde dude Now olde dude, this is going to be a very important question for you to answer... Does that count as what? Do you mean, does it count in any way at all to what I have been talking about all this time? Which has been same sex marriage and it's legal standing in The American Justice System as a constitutional right or not, and if there were any other organized religious or secular groups that you know of that acted in any organized, legal way other than evangelical Christians to thwart it? If so, then no. No it doesn't. by oldedude on August 19, 2023 1:41 pm So honor killings in the US don't count. Their only little fukking brown people, so they don't count. Got it. by islander on August 19, 2023 1:55 pm Ponderer~ Here in our country Catholics, by a margin of two to one, support the right of gays to marry. “A Pew Research Center poll indicated that Catholics in the United States who support legal gay marriage outnumber those who oppose by two to one ( 61 percent to 31 percent)". This is a big change from three decades ago. In 2020 Pope Francis, overriding protestations from some conservative bishops here in USA became the first pope to endorse same-sex civil unions. This could not have happened 100 years ago...But we are making progress. Among ALL the various religions here in USA there is however a divide over whether the government should bar discrimination against people who are lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender in workplaces, housing or schools including and legal civil marriages. About 6 in 10 Catholics, white mainline Protestants and nonwhite Protestants supported those protections, compared with about a third (only 1 in 3) of white evangelical Protestants). White evangelical Protestants are more likely than the general public to express a desire for less separation between church and state, according to a Pew Research Center report published Oct. 28. More than a third (34%) say “the federal government should stop enforcing separation of church and state,” compared to 19% of all U.S. adults. goodfaithmedia.org nbcnews.com by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2023 2:36 pm I have been asking for examples of any other religions or groups who actively organized a legal attack to keep same sex marriage illegal. To the best of my knowledge, no religions nor groups actively organized "a legal attack" against same sex marriage. Not evangelicals. Not no one. One of your "Do you still beat your wife questions." Classic po. I haven't seen one of them in quite a while. Still... ...you haven't lost your touch! by Ponderer on August 19, 2023 7:15 pm "So honor killings in the US don't count." -olde dude Did they count in any of the court cases brought by evangelical Christians to thwart same sex marriage from becoming legal...? No, I do not believe they did. Not at all. In fact, I don't believe either side's lawyers ever brought it up. Hello...? Is this thing on...? by Ponderer on August 19, 2023 7:26 pm "To the best of my knowledge, no religions nor groups actively organized "a legal attack" against same sex marriage. Not evangelicals. Not no one." -Hate See? Now was that so hard to do, Bill? You simply answered the question! You took what was rolling around in that empty skull of yours and used it to answer my question! Granted, it was a truly stupid, reality-insulting answer, but I will not begrudge you sharing this sense of accomplishment we both must feel at you having actually answered one of my simple, direct questions for the first time in ages. And good for you, Bill! by oldedude on August 19, 2023 7:50 pm Did they count in any of the court cases brought by evangelical Christians to thwart same sex marriage from becoming legal...? No, I do not believe they did. Not at all. In fact, I don't believe either side's lawyers ever brought it up. That's my point. Since they didn't count in your extremely narrow point of reference, the answer is "no." AND it's a does this question make me look like a bigger ass" question... actually is YES. You do this a lot. define a question soooooo narrow, that you can't get a good answer. by oldedude on August 20, 2023 6:50 am Lead- so what she's saying is that murdering family members is better than an organized peaceful movement. This is kinda like curt's "I'd rather have rape trees than do anything about the massive illegal entry into the US" thing. People being murdered is an accepted option to get their political goals. As long as they're "just" the little brown people and not us sheeple. by islander on August 20, 2023 7:30 am "so what she's saying is that murdering family members is better than an organized peaceful movement." ~ od Really !! Who said that? Post number please ? by oldedude on August 20, 2023 7:54 am po #37- "So honor killings in the US don't count." -olde dude Did they count in any of the court cases brought by evangelical Christians to thwart same sex marriage from becoming legal...? No, I do not believe they did. Not at all. In fact, I don't believe either side's lawyers ever brought it up. by Ponderer on August 20, 2023 8:04 am "You do this a lot. define a question soooooo narrow, that you can't get a good answer." -olde dude Because I was talking about and asking about a very specific thing that required a specific answer. Look, od. I made a very specific statement that Evangelical Christians were the sole enemy that fought against same sex marriage and the LGBT community in court. Hate flatly and vehemently disagreed with me, insinuating that I was wrong and that either he knew of other organized groups who fought against same sex marriage in court besides Christian organizations, or that he believed there were no organized enemies of same sex marriage at all who worked against it becoming legal. And he finally, after pages of obfuscation, gave me an answer. He was of course wrong, but at least he gave me an answer. I was only talking about and asking a question regarding the legal standing of same sex marriage and who was organized against it. Not only was I not talking about honor killings by Muslims, I was also not talking about the preponderance of soft drink vending machines in Delaware, the efficiency of four-stroke gasoline engines, nor any other subject that was totally irrelevant and non sequitur to the specific subject I was talking and asking about. So I am not supposed to ask any specific questions? Is that because you guys don't like answering them? Am I supposed to ask only broadly vague questions that allow you to give vague and uncertain answers that can't be nailed down one way or the other? Oooo, I nailed it there, didn't I. "so what she's saying is that murdering family members is better than an organized peaceful movement." -olde dude olde dude, how do you expect me to maintain anything like a civil tone with you when you post the most ridiculous and asinine bullshit about me like this? I'm just supposed to maintain civility while you proudly wipe your ass with it? How in the world do you expect me to not tell you to gofuck yourself, or to call you a demented, pig-ignorant, scatterbrained, lying fuckingasshole (which I am exercising extreme restraint right now to keep from doing) when you intentionally goad me with a deranged and idiotic comment like that? Why do you always insist on bursting into threads and having a different conversation about something totally irrelevant to the discussion that you entered? Is it that impossible for you to follow a simple discussion without going all hyper-non sequitur? You want to have a discussion about honor killings by Muslims in America? Then start a thread about it. Quit trying to bring things into conversations that have nothing at all to do with the conversations. It's annoying and makes you look like a demented asshole. Not that you are one, but you make yourself look like one in here all the time when you do that. Just FYI. by islander on August 20, 2023 8:06 am You posted the wrong post number old dude. I would like to see the one where somebody other than yourself said..."murdering family members is better than an organized peaceful movement" Nobody said that in post # 37. by oldedude on August 20, 2023 10:29 am dikead. you're no better than po's "does this question make me a bigger ass" question. Grow up. by oldedude on August 20, 2023 11:20 am jjpo- Look, od. I made a very specific statement that Evangelical Christians were the sole enemy that fought against same sex marriage and the LGBT community in court. You want to have a discussion about honor killings by Muslims in America? Then start a thread about it. Quit trying to bring things into conversations that have nothing at all to do with the conversations. It's annoying and makes you look like a demented asshole. Not that you are one, but you make yourself look like one in here all the time when you do that. Just FYI. I know you can't/won't understand this, but it relates DIRECTLY to your statement. Your narrowness in this makes the statement inane. There are many other factors in that you are refusing to engage with. And there's a big problem with who is making that distinction. Is it you? You're saying this is the ONLY group that does this is to say no one else matters. And there are repercussions from that. First, you're taking a VERY small number of Christians in the US. As a non-believer, I'm not really sure you should make that distinction without a definition. The family members and their friends here and my in-laws, do NOT identify as Evangelical. And yet they support the groups you're talking about. Catholics are another group where you have to find a parish that states they will accept gays. Otherwise, you as the member are told weekly you are to be cast into hell. They are NOT members of the evangelical movement. My view is that you found a group to hate. You're life isn't complete without your utter hatred. scienceofpeople.com by HatetheSwamp on August 20, 2023 11:27 am My view is that you found a group to hate. You're life isn't complete without your utter hatred. You nailed it, OD! by Ponderer on August 20, 2023 11:37 am He certainly did, Bill... by HatetheSwamp on August 20, 2023 11:55 am pb wishes you possessed the self-awareness to honestly appreciate that truth. by Ponderer on August 20, 2023 12:11 pm Ditto. by islander on August 20, 2023 3:02 pm You’re a terrible debater olddude. Do you know even what a strawman argument is? It’s a tactic that poor debaters like yourself fall back on when you cannot argue intelligently and effectively. Basically, a strawman is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion. You do it all the time...The moment you say, “What (fill in the blank) is saying is”... you then completely mischaracterize what your opponent said and you then attack your own mischaracterization.You're Like Don Quixote charging at windmills ! Lol !! I think it would be an eye opener for you if you started keeping track of the number of times you do that. If you’d like, I’ll even help you by pointing out to you each time you start out telling us what somebody else means when they say something (that’s when your strawman fallacy kicks in). Tell me, do you really think YOU get to tell other people what they mean when they say something? LoL !! Another hint that can help you become a better debater...Lose the childish name calling. Your posts are littered with the language and phrases of a schoolyard bully like dikead LoL !!. Makes you sound like your not very intelligent. Follow me for more hints that can help you become a better debater. You’ll be glad you did. 😀 by oldedude on August 20, 2023 3:43 pm So a strawman argument is exactly what you did to me. By responding that it had "nothing" to do with the subject matter shows how closed minded you are to making actual sense of a subject by leaving out actual information that could change the outcome of the accusation. If you want to, fine. It's your MO also. Lead- permission to use a metaphor. I'm going to argue that showers are hazardous and need to be abolished. It was by far the leading cause of death for Jews, gays, artists, etc from 1943- 1945. And I can prove that. Don't you think we're leaving out something? There might be some information that needs to be said, changing the results? Or, would you argue to use "only" that information is necessary and is full scope. Especially if jjpo were the one writing that (in fairness, I can't imagine po doing that, I hated to use it po, but it helps clarify) by Donna on August 20, 2023 3:53 pm White Evangelical Trump Support Fracturing April 7, 2023 "White evangelicals have been Trump’s most consistent and committed supporters throughout his presidency. They overwhelmingly supported Trump in both the 2016 and 2020 presidential elections. More recently, some white evangelicals appear less enthused about Trump. Only 56 percent of white evangelicals with a college degree have a favorable view of Trump, down from 68 percent in 2017. Trump’s support among white evangelicals without a college degree appears far more stable." americansurveycenter.org by oldedude on August 20, 2023 9:08 pm I find that great! Although I'm sure the dims will find 100 or so charges with the next GOP president also. I'm also interested in whom they would vote for. But we'll see. by islander on August 21, 2023 3:42 am Donna ~ That's good news. The disappointing part is that it's basically only the college educated evangelicals who are distancing themselves from Trump. Like the article said, "White evangelicals have been Trump’s most consistent and committed supporters throughout his presidency". For those who are NOT college educated, they are still Trump’s most consistent and committed supporters despite everything that Trump has done and they also know the kind of person Trump is. That's disturbing. Heck even our two Trump voters here have been trying to distance themselves from Trump. by Ponderer on August 21, 2023 6:49 am "Although I'm sure the dims will find 100 or so charges with the next GOP president also." -olde dude Well ya know what od? All the next Republican president would have to do to keep that from happening is to not commit 100 or so criminal acts. Now I realize how that was a total impossibility for the last GOP president to pull off. But maybe you'll have better luck with the next one not being such a wanton career criminal? If the American people ever choose to elect another one of course. by oldedude on August 21, 2023 7:45 am jjpo- Well ya know what od? All the next Republican president would have to do to keep that from happening is to not commit 100 or so criminal acts. I honestly don't think that will happen. We could bring in Christ himself and you would still spend every ounce of energy and billions of dollars to invent charges. by HatetheSwamp on August 21, 2023 7:51 am Christ Himself? They'd CRUCIFY Him! by oldedude on August 21, 2023 8:00 am After 40 lashes, etc... I really didn't want to use that, but it's the ONLY person that would be suitable. So I do apologize. by Ponderer on August 21, 2023 8:20 am "We could bring in Christ himself and you would still spend every ounce of energy and billions of dollars to invent charges." -olde dude So od, Bill... Do you two assert that the current 91 felonies that he is going to be tried for are imaginary? That he didn't actually commit a single one of those felonies? That he is being dishonestly accused of having committed them all? You two don't seem to comprehend that he was charged with crimes because there is ample evidence that he actually committed them. You know it's kind of retarded for you two to convince yourselves that he hasn't committed any crimes when you won't consider or even look at any of the publicly presented evidence so that by itself already proves that he blatantly did. by Donna on August 21, 2023 8:21 am Are you sure that that's good news, islander? I sense that there are oodles of independents who would love to vote for someone who isn't Trump or Biden. I'm rooting for Trump to win the GOP nomination because I think he'd be the easiest one to beat. Plus, if one of the other candidates gets the nomination and goes on to win, they'll almost certainly pardon DJT and his accomplices of all federal charges they'll almost certainly be convicted of. by islander on August 21, 2023 9:03 am I think it’s good news in the sense that college educated evangelicals are distancing themselves from Trump and if Trump is nominated there will be that many fewer votes for Trump. ‘And’ I think it demonstrates that education really matters. I also think that those independents who voted for Trump but will now NOT vote for Trump or Biden bodes well if Trump is the nominee. Biden won’t be losing those votes, they were not going to vote for him anyway but Trump will lose those votes. Do I think Trump will be the Republican nominee? Not really, and like you, I think he’d crushed by Biden if he is the nominee. If he isn’t nominated he’ll be the biggest vote stealer from whomever the republicans end up nominating and that’s good too. I think the republicans know they are stuck between a rock and a hard place, they know Trump can’t win a second term but right now they don’t know how to stop him from being nominated. I think, between now and the primaries the republicans have to figure out how to stop Trump...But that’s their problem...They created it. by HatetheSwamp on August 21, 2023 9:53 am So od, Bill... Do you two assert that the current 91 felonies that he is going to be tried for are imaginary? That he didn't actually commit a single one of those felonies? That he is being dishonestly accused of having committed them all? Speaking for myself. No. But, close. We're Americans who embrace the liberties guaranteed to all citizens by the Bill of Rights and, speaking for pb... ...I wish that you believed about liberty what we believe. by HatetheSwamp on August 21, 2023 10:06 am I think it’s good news in the sense that college educated evangelicals are distancing themselves from Trump and if Trump is nominated there will be that many fewer votes for Trump. ‘And’ I think it demonstrates that education really matters. Still, a pretty sizable majority of college educated evangelicals support Trump. pb's not an evangelical but he used to identify as an evangelical. And, he's wondered why evangelicals are so enamored with Trump. Here's what pb has decided: Evangelicals are outsiders in America. The mainstream laughs at them and mocks them and belittles them. Heck. Think po and isle openly and unabashedly hate them. Trump is nearly exactly to American political culture what evangelicals are in religious culture. Evangelicals can identify with Trump very easily. So?... by oldedude on August 21, 2023 10:09 am I'm going ditto with Lead. Is he charged? Yes. Are the vast majority stretching the law? Yes. Again, I'm just waiting a couple of years before the end result is revealed. It doesn't matter if he wins in court or loses, It will go to another court and up the line. My thought? See you in a few years. by islander on August 21, 2023 10:26 am Hate wrote: "Evangelicals are outsiders in America. The mainstream laughs at them and mocks them and belittles them. Heck. Think po and isle openly and unabashedly hate them." That's a lie. I don't hate evangelicals. And unlike you, I don't hate Trump either. by HatetheSwamp on August 21, 2023 10:53 am Except for calling them White Nationalists, you loooooove evangelicals. by oldedude on August 21, 2023 10:56 am Which equates to calling them Klansmen. by HatetheSwamp on August 21, 2023 11:49 am Donna's hero, Frankie Schaeffer, proves po's evangophobia to be stoopid: "In Mississippi just a 12-year-old girl who was raped and impregnated was forced by her state’s abortion ban to give birth. She became a mother at 13. God damn the heartless Neo-fascist Christian Nationalist far right Roman Catholic majority on the U.S. supreme Court." Keeheeheeheeheehee heeheeheeheeheeheehee hoohoohoohoohoohoohoo hahaha baha baha heeheeheeheeheeheehee hoohoohoohoohoohoo ha, ahhhhhhhhhhh! by islander on August 21, 2023 1:05 pm olddude wrote: >Which equates to calling them Klansmen" No, olddude they do not mean the same thing. "The Ku Klux Klan (commonly shortened to the KKK or the Klan is the name of several historical and current American white supremacist, far right-wing terrorist, and hate groups. Their primary targets are African Americans, Hispanics, Jews, Latinos, Asian Americans, Native Americans, and Catholics, as well as immigrants, leftists, homosexuals, Muslims, atheists, and abortion providers." * Bradley Onishi "makes the distinction between white evangelicalism and white Christian nationalism. Evangelicalism teaches that “the Bible is the errorless Word of God,” which “should be read and followed as literally as possible. White Christian nationalism goes further, embracing the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation and, as such, is superior to all other nations, and one chosen by God to play a central role in world history. Other foundational components of Christian nationalism are nostalgia for past glory –  when white men were most highly privileged –  and an apocalyptic view of the nation’s future." For a more in depth look at evangelicalism itself click the second link from the Pew Research Center. en.wikipedia.org pewresearch.org by oldedude on August 21, 2023 1:24 pm You can give all the BS you want, but you'll turn on what you said on a dime. Just to justify yourself and CYA. by HatetheSwamp on August 21, 2023 1:27 pm White Christian nationalism goes further, embracing the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation and, as such, is superior to all other nations, and one chosen by God to play a central role in world history. And, by isle's ciphers, all 80+ million American evangelicals share that form of derangement. worldometers.info pewresearch.org by islander on August 21, 2023 1:34 pm Hate wrote: "And, by isle's ciphers, all 80+ million American evangelicals share that form of derangement." Another lie. I guess lying just comes second nature to you, Hate. by HatetheSwamp on August 21, 2023 1:44 pm Fine, isle. Clarify. by islander on August 21, 2023 1:57 pm I don't think for one moment, nor have I ever said that all 80+ million American evangelicals share that form of derangement. That's something you made up...Is that clear enough for you Hate? by HatetheSwamp on August 21, 2023 2:08 pm isle, Until you were checked, you used broad brushes in describing Evangelicals and White Supremacists, and you implied that pb was exaggerating about the real life implications of your broad strokes. But, I'm not aware that you've ever clarified. If you did. I apologize for misremembering. So?, please. Do. Who is an evangelical in your esteemed opinion? Who are those wascally American White Supremacist haters? What's the connection between those two groups? by islander on August 21, 2023 2:16 pm Hate wrote: I apologize for misremembering. I don't accept your phony apology...You don't misremember...You outright lie. by HatetheSwamp on August 21, 2023 2:29 pm Am I to gather that you're busted. And that you can't clarify in a way that's rational? isle. Whether I misremember or not. You can clarify. C'mon buddy. Go for it. by oldedude on August 21, 2023 2:59 pm Until you were checked, you used broad brushes in describing Evangelicals and White Supremacists, and you implied that pb was exaggerating about the real life implications of your broad strokes. But, I'm not aware that you've ever clarified. If you did. ditto. by oldedude on August 21, 2023 8:14 pm Lead, No response. Concur, no exception. by islander on August 22, 2023 3:26 am olddude wrote: "No response" LoL !!! You really are a ditto head aren't you olddude !! See post #75. The best response to a shameless liar like Hate is to simply tell the truth. by HatetheSwamp on August 22, 2023 3:58 am What you didn't respond to is... "Who is an evangelical in your opinion? Who are those wascally American White Supremacist haters? What's the connection between those two groups?" isle, As I've noted many times, heck as you've noted, pb identified as an evangelical for decades and was active in that community. Back in the day when you linked to that CBS video on White Christian Nationalism, I offered you some nuance based on the wisdom of my many years. Your (lack of) interaction with those ideas was remarkable to me, anyway. So?... "Who is an evangelical in your opinion? Who are those wascally American White Supremacist haters? What's the connection between those two groups?" by oldedude on August 22, 2023 4:54 am Lead, He's diverting and evading. When he does it, things are perfectly normal for the limousine liberal elitist prigs. And then we end up teaching them about the constitution they claim to "love" (but know nothing about). Remember, "rules are only for thee, not for me" is their motto. by HatetheSwamp on August 22, 2023 5:45 am I hope isle opens up on his understanding of White Christian Nationalism and evangelicals. Clearly, he feels strongly about both...and their connection to each other. It may be a false impression, but he strikes me as prejudiced on the level of KKKers and Nazis. by islander on August 22, 2023 6:08 am b>I hope isle opens up on his understanding of White Christian Nationalism and evangelicals. See post # 70 by HatetheSwamp on August 22, 2023 6:35 am So, isle, do you believe that Franklin Graham, the force behind Samaritan's Purse and son of Billy Graham, is a White Christian Nationalist? Rick Warren, founder of Saddleback Community Church, Obama’s friend who spoke the Invocation at the 08 Inauguration? Is he a White Christian Nationalist? You're leaving questions unanswered. Normally, you're not so mealy mouthed. C'mon man! "Who is an evangelical in your opinion? Who are those wascally American White Supremacist haters? What's the connection between those two groups?" wtvq.com wsj.com by Ponderer on August 22, 2023 7:46 am Isle, sometimes when all they are doing is fuckingwith you, you just have to tell them to take a break and gofuck themselves for awhile. by HatetheSwamp on August 22, 2023 7:55 am po, I know that this is isle's thing more than yours. But, pb asked questions with the interrogative pronoun, who. So, can you help out the SS crowd and give us say, three people who are both evangelical AND White Christian Nationalist? I ain't sayin that there ain't three but, based on who evangelicals are, from my decades of life experience, I don't know any, and I know googobs of evangelicals very, very personally. by islander on August 22, 2023 8:06 am Ponderer, Olddude and Hate are just a couple of internet trolls as I don't doubt you and the rest of us are well aware. But I'll admit to my own weakness of sometimes engaging in, well, I can't really call it dialogue with them, it's more just letting them make fools of themselves like they are doing here. I know better, but I think you'll admit that sometimes it can be perversely pleasurable to watch them demonstrate what they are ! 😀 But it can get start to get old pretty quickly...Like right about now !! 👍 by HatetheSwamp on August 22, 2023 8:42 am So, isle. You're claiming a Bill of Rights right. Takin the Fifth, eh? You can't give us three whoes that are both evangelical and White Christian Nationalists. That's fine...if you own up. by oldedude on August 22, 2023 9:02 am isle, you and jjpo do exactly that. This was a discussion as of yesterday. So throwing the first stone is exactly what the Bible is talking about. by HatetheSwamp on August 22, 2023 11:31 am OD, I'm sorry. "jjpo," what am I missing? by oldedude on August 22, 2023 12:08 pm So far, everyone has... scienceofpeople.com by Ponderer on August 22, 2023 12:38 pm , Isle. by HatetheSwamp on August 22, 2023 12:48 pm ...everyone else is awful, uncool, or lacking in some way. One of my wife's pet sayings is, "Okay, then." Okay, then. by islander on August 22, 2023 2:27 pm Ponderer, I just finished putting a new thermocouple in our gas oven and it was quicker and easier than I expected, so I have a few extra minutes to to spare! I think we all know our two trolls tactics quite well by now. Hate first makes a false statement. In post # 64 Hate wrote: "Evangelicals are outsiders in America. The mainstream laughs at them and mocks them and belittles them. Heck. Think po and isle openly and unabashedly hate them." He just made that up ! LoL !! olddude then jumps in and says: ”Which equates to calling them Klansmen" In my post # 70 I explain to olddude the difference between the KKK, white Christian nationalists, and Evangelicals. In post # 72 Hate makes another false claim: ”And, by isle's ciphers, all 80+ million American evangelicals share that form of derangement” In post # 82 Hate falsely claims: ”What you didn't respond to is... "Who is an evangelical in your opinion? Who are those wascally American White Supremacist haters? What's the connection between those two groups?" In my post # 70 I did indeed answer who they (Christian nationalists) are, ‘and’ how they differ from the evangelicals who are not Christian nationalists. In post # 84 Hate falsely implies that I haven’t given my understanding of Christian Nationalism: ”I hope isle opens up on his understanding of White Christian Nationalism and evangelicals. Which of course I already did in post # 70. By now, naturally, I’m getting pretty bored with him and his false accusations. I think Hate senses that so in post # 86 he says I’m leaving questions unanswered so he changes the question to one he hadn’t asked LoL ! ”So, isle, do you believe that Franklin Graham, the force behind Samaritan's Purse and son of Billy Graham, is a White Christian Nationalist? Rick Warren, founder of Saddleback Community Church, Obama’s friend who spoke the Invocation at the 08 Inauguration? Is he a White Christian Nationalist?” In post # 88 he jumps on you, Ponderer, and asks a question he never asked me LoL ! ”So, can you help out the SS crowd and give us say, three people who are both evangelical AND White Christian Nationalist?” I had to chuckle at his “SS Crowd” ! I think there are only about 6 of us plus Curt! 😁 Anyway it’s 5:00 pm “Happy Hour” here at our house, and my wife said I deserve a nice cold adult beverage for fixing her oven !!! (Fixing her oven was ultimately to my own benefit since I'm almost out of chocolate chip cookies)! Cheers !! 🍻 by HatetheSwamp on August 22, 2023 2:44 pm I think Hate senses that so in post # 86 he says I’m leaving questions unanswered so he changes the question to one he hadn’t asked LoL ! ”So, isle, do you believe that Franklin Graham, the force behind Samaritan's Purse and son of Billy Graham, is a White Christian Nationalist? Rick Warren, founder of Saddleback Community Church, Obama’s friend who spoke the Invocation at the 08 Inauguration? Is he a White Christian Nationalist?” isle, From the beginning, pb's been asking for specifics. It's standard for bigots to judge a whole large and diverse class of people with sweeping generalities. And, I've attempted to include nuance. This most recent post of yours? #96, I'll admit, contains tap dancing such as I've never observed in all my SS years. Brings ol Mr. Bojangles to mind. Thanks for the effort. Really. You can clarify by providing the specifics I've yearned for since looooooooong before po kicked off this thread. Who, buddy, who? Who's an evangelical who's a White Christian Nationalist? Since the evangelical population is, give or take, 80 million, asking for three ain't unreasonable. But,... You just can't put rubber on the road. So, g'head. At your leisure. by oldedude on August 22, 2023 5:33 pm isle- are you a certified paranoid? or haven't been certified yet? Wow- #96 was just a rant of all the ills (fictious or not) anyone has ever done to you. Just as a sideliner, I don't think you've answered the question. AND twice, my two year old grandson could understand the question so..... just remember, Paranoia Will Destroy Ya...jussayin... by oldedude on August 22, 2023 6:11 pm Oh, heeeeerrrrrssssssss your song. View Video by HatetheSwamp on August 23, 2023 2:12 am That's hilarious, OD! Which one is isle? "Beta Male?" Honestly, I think being offended is a ruse. isle's been busted, and he knows it. The question still remains. Who, isle!!!!!? by oldedude on August 23, 2023 5:54 am Yeah, it would be nice. And at this point I'm just giving up on it. Point proven. I just hope he 'members this down the road of arguments and pressing (I doubt it, but there's always hope). I just had to do the video because I referenced the Kinks, so I had to get a country song in there. And it's new. And then of course, there's Engvall and Foxworthy that I had to do a shoutout to. John Rich isn't signed with anyone anymore. He's allowed to do what he wants. Some of the newer artists (like Anthony) have been contacted by him to put their music out without being beholden to machine in the business or mega corp. If they want to, great. If not, great. It's an offer that he'll front them money to do the song. And when the song's out they pay him back and take the rest. Without the 20-30% the companies charge to "cover" a new artist. Go To Top

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