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Politics selectors, pages, etc.
An ‘imposter Christianity’ is threatening American democracy
By islander
January 21, 2023 9:24 am
Category: Politics

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"Three men, eyes closed and heads bowed, pray before a rough-hewn wooden cross. Another man wraps his arms around a massive Bible pressed against his chest like a shield. All throughout the crowd, people wave “Jesus Saves” banners and pump their fists toward the sky.

At first glance, these snapshots look like scenes from an outdoor church rally. But this event wasn’t a revival; it was what some call a Christian revolt. These were photos of people who stormed the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, during an attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election."


Cited and related links:

  1. cnn.com

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Comments on "An ‘imposter Christianity’ is threatening American democracy ":

  1. by HatetheSwamp on January 21, 2023 9:47 am

    When I saw this post, I began to hope that this could be an issue, a RARE one, on which isle and pb agree.

    So, isle. Whadaya think about the article? Do you agree?, mostly agree?, just want to interest the SS community? I assume you don't disagree.

    So, please, declare yourself.


  2. by islander on January 21, 2023 12:02 pm

    That’s a rather silly question from you. If you’ve been reading and understanding my posts all these years you’d know without a doubt that I strongly agree with what the article had to say about this issue.


  3. by HatetheSwamp on January 21, 2023 12:30 pm

    I wondered if it might be a little hyperbolic even for you. Hence the "mostly agree" option.


  4. by islander on January 21, 2023 1:48 pm

    I don’t think it’s an exaggeration, in fact I think a lot of people underestimate the psychological power of religious beliefs when it comes to politics. This article demonstrates the danger of this and makes it clear how important the separation of church and state is to our democracy.


  5. by Curt_Anderson on January 21, 2023 2:04 pm
    Trump cultists can buy hats, shirts, flags and all sorts of paraphernalia emblazoned with "Jesus is my Savior Trump is My President".

    It's not only a denial of reality it's sacrilegious.
    trumpsuperstore.com


  6. by islander on January 21, 2023 2:06 pm

    This is one example of what I'm talking about...

    Trump lashed out at evangelical Christian leaders, accusing evangelicals of being disloyal for declining to immediately rally around his 2024 presidential bid. Trump being the con-man that he is easily manipulated and used them for his own political gain.


    cnn.com


  7. by HatetheSwamp on January 21, 2023 3:44 pm

    I don’t think it’s an exaggeration, in fact I think a lot of people underestimate the psychological power of religious beliefs when it comes to politics. This article demonstrates the danger of this and makes it clear how important the separation of church and state is to our democracy.

    I'm not sure that people "underestimate the psychological power of religious beliefs when it comes to politics." We all lived through 9-11. We saw the destruction of the World Trade Center.

    I agree with you about the importance of "the separation of church and state is to our democracy," well our constitutional republic, anyway.

    My disagreement with you is that I think you're out of touch with reality. You live in a Heather/Teri world, which is out of touch. The CNN article suggests that a dangerously large chunk of, to use pb's glossary, right wing antiSwamp Christians dream of making this a Christian nation, by force, if necessary. And, not only Christian but a nation in which white supremacy thinking dominates.

    pb knows many right wing antiSwamp Christians. The article doesn't characterize anyone pb knows personally. pb knows people who attended that J6 rally. That article doesn't come close to describing a single one of the people known to pb. You know Trump supporters yourself. Honestly, do you know people people as extreme as the people depicted by the article? I think that the article judges a movement of millions by the beliefs and actions of a bunch of hundreds.

    The people you fear, and whom this article
    that you strongly agree with describes, make up a miniscule portion of the right wing antiSwamp Christian community.

    What's more, the overwhelming majority of the rest of right wing antiSwamp Christians are opposed to those few to the same degree that you are...and with more passion because those wackos besmirch them and what they believe in.

    pb's word to you, isle? As Jesus said, "Let not your heart be troubled."

    Based on my considerable life experience, you're exaggerating the problem.

    Perhaps very innocently, you're doing what bigots do. You're judging a large group of people by a small minority of the most objectionable of its number.


  8. by HatetheSwamp on January 21, 2023 3:50 pm

    Curt,

    The Trump Superstore:

    Store Address:
    4505 Hwy 17 S, North Myrtle Beach, SC 29582
    Phone: (843) 448-7881

    is about a mile from where I'm posting.

    If you want me to pick something up for you, let me know.

    Bahahahahahahahahahaha, ahhhhhhhhhhh.


  9. by HatetheSwamp on January 21, 2023 3:55 pm

    isle,

    Trump lashed out at evangelical Christian leaders, accusing evangelicals of being disloyal for declining to immediately rally around his 2024 presidential bid. Trump being the con-man that he is easily manipulated and used them for his own political gain.

    You just made pb's point. There are very few of the people your article sets up as a national threat.

    Strawman.


  10. by islander on January 22, 2023 6:44 am

    Hate wrote: ”Honestly, do you know people people as extreme as the people depicted by the article? I think that the article judges a movement of millions by the beliefs and actions of a bunch of hundreds.”

    Honestly? I absolutely do know people who espouse the views expressed in the article. Out of the 6 siblings in my own family alone, 3 believe and espouse those views. 
I have acquaintances and have had neighbors who espoused White Christian Nationalist views, and I have argued with and debated proponents of WNC online for a number of years. They have websites dedicated to to their views if you dare to open your eyes and look. There are far more of them than your “”bunch of hundreds.”

    
This is what (WCN) is:

    “White Christian nationalism (WCN) is, first of all, a story about America. It says: America was founded as a Christian nation, by (white) Christians; and its laws and institutions are based on “Biblical” (that is, Protestant) Christianity. This much is certain, though: America is divinely favored. Whence its enormous wealth and power. In exchange for these blessings, America has been given a mission: to spread religion, freedom, and civilization—by force, if necessary. But that mission is endangered by the growing presence of non-whites, non-Christians, and non-Americans on American soil. White Christians must therefore “take back the country,” their country.”

    We now have politicians in office who are there precisely because they openly pander to these people, those WCNs willingly gave those politicians the power they crave. Up until now, they have been gaining in influence and power. I don’t expect you to acknowledge the reality of the size of WCN nor do I expect you to recognize the danger such people pose to our democracy. You are the real life epitome of “The good German”, the phrase you use to denigrate those with whom you disagree. You don’t want to see it so you can’t. You don’t want to believe any of this so it can’t be true, after all, as you believe and proclaim repeatedly...your subjectivity is your truth.

    Of course there are Christians (and I know many) who recognize just who and what these WCNs are and they recognize the danger they pose, “and” it makes them cringe when see and hear on the news what these WCNs are saying and doing. But unlike you they stand up to them and fight back, they don’t diminish these WCNs danger to our country and to Christianity and/or brush then off with a wave of their hand.

    Check out the link and learn more about the WCN.


    berkleycenter.georgetown.edu


  11. by HatetheSwamp on January 22, 2023 7:28 am

    I hope that you're stretching the truth about the people in your life, isle. In all those connections that are optional, I'd withdraw. No one needs people like the ones you describe in their life.

    However, I'm picking up the same attitude in you toward conservative Christians that members of the KKK have toward people of color and Jews.


  12. by islander on January 22, 2023 7:47 am

    Hate wrote: ”However, I'm picking up the same attitude in you toward conservative Christians that members of the KKK have toward people of color and Jews.”

    No your not.

    What you are doing is trying to subtly imply that when I describe WCNs I’m describing conservative Christians...Unless, of course YOU believe there are no differences because for YOU they are one and the same. Let me clue you in on something...They are not the same.


  13. by HatetheSwamp on January 22, 2023 8:02 am

    Thing is, isle. In the real world, much of my life is antiSwamp people and conservative Christians.

    You?, you claim to have some. On thr fringe of your life and some in your fambly. I know this subject. First hand.

    I will never forget that atrocious racist Herschel Walker article with which you found no problem...





  14. by islander on January 22, 2023 8:55 am

    You don't live in the real world, Hate, not by a long shot.

    This picture of what you call "the real world" is distorted by your own colossal subjectivity. You are convinced that your subjective beliefs = Truth...And that everybody is stuck in the exact same boat you are.

    If that were “True” then no one can be any closer to any kind of objective truth than you and trying to have a rational and reasonable dialogue with you or anyone else would be impossible. Whether you are capable of acknowledging this, even to yourself...I do suspect you know why this is the case.

    There is no argument over the fact that no one can achieve absolute objectivity. However, it’s what honest people strive for, and the degree of objectivity that different people can achieve can be described in terms of a spectrum...Whether you like it or not, some people can be “more” objective than others which means that some people can be more objective than you...


  15. by HatetheSwamp on January 22, 2023 9:29 am

    When you figure out which smells better, roast beef or azaleas, fill us in.


  16. by islander on January 22, 2023 9:42 am

    Study up and learn the difference between facts and values, it'll help you to understand why your question is a non sequitur.

    Which way does the Mississippi River flow...North or south? ---Fact

    Which smells better...Roast beef or azaleas?---Value


  17. by HatetheSwamp on January 22, 2023 10:59 am

    As our sanctimones here have said in the past. You among them, "Now we're getting somewhere!"

    Good for you, isle. Good for you!


  18. by islander on January 22, 2023 2:37 pm

    I’m glad I was able to help you better understand why your notion that it’s your belief that makes a fact claim true (subjectivity is truth) is actually false.


  19. by HatetheSwamp on January 22, 2023 3:02 pm

    As I often say to po, I can't believe you're that stupid.

    And, of course, what's more like. You're blinded by your subjectivity.

    Bahahahahahahahahahaha.


  20. by oldedude on January 25, 2023 2:55 pm
    So I looked at the top of the thread also. It's the same hyperbole that both sides accuse the other of. It's like saying that if you elect GOP members, our (sic) "democracy" is endangered, and will cease to exist. Of course, only the stupidest of voters would believe that, which accounts for the dims getting out the vote.

    Lead, you and I are routinely called Trumpsters, which neither one of us are. The problem they've found with me is that I'm a legal absolutist. Goose/ gander. If it's good for one, it's good for the other. So I guess I piss off both sides. I do know people that are both ends of the spectrum. I'm considered too liberal by many. And as seen here, I'm considered a trumpster (which by definition is racist and without morals). So I guess the radical ends of both sides don't want anything to do with me. Which is fine by me.

    Isle's "view" of radical is part and parcel of his views. When someone is that radical, they honestly believe a "compromise" is when they get everything they want. And you don't. Just something to 'member.


  21. by HatetheSwamp on January 26, 2023 3:54 am

    Lead, you and I are routinely called Trumpsters, which neither one of us are.

    It's amazing. The way a person insults actually says tons about the person doing the insulting.

    po's crazy about saying that, for us, Trump is our "Lord and Master."

    But, isle? His real zinger for me is that I'm an Evangelical! Sheesh! An Evangelical! Imagine that! I'd love to have that psychoanalyzed! Baha. But, whoa. Can you say CHRISTOPHOBE!!!!!?

    AND, isle combines that with TDS plus his J6 mania.

    Amazing!

    pb does wonder where that comes from.


  22. by islander on January 26, 2023 6:05 am

    Hate wrote: ”But, isle? His real zinger for me is that I'm an Evangelical! Sheesh! An Evangelical! Imagine that! I'd love to have that psychoanalyzed! Baha. But, whoa. Can you say CHRISTOPHOBE!!!!!?”

    LoL !!! "I" never said that ! 🤣

    You” said you used to be an Evangelical and I asked you why you left even though we all know why you are trying to distance yourself from them. And, as I said, over the years we’ve watched you evolve and that’s a good thing. You still have a way to go but you’re heading in the right direction ! 👍

    What you have to work on is reducing the amount of hatred you have inside you and work on being more honest. One is related to the other...your hatred feeds your dishonesty.

    Did you know that 81% of white Evangelicals want our nation to be a Christian nation and want our laws to be based on their religious beliefs?
    pewresearch.org


  23. by HatetheSwamp on January 26, 2023 6:34 am

    So, isle, here's what I never can tell with Curt and you. Are you just joshin us? Do you believe anything you post?

    I start with the sincere conviction that you are not this stoopid. So, if it's not that you're stoopid, how do you equate 81% of evangelicals think that the US "should be a Christian nation" with your claim that white evangelicals are white Christian Nationalists?

    The truth?

    White evangelicals are institutionalists. They deal with politics and religion, virtually everything, on the level of the institution. On matters of religion, they're about church, not Jesus. In politics, that are all in on the Swamp. That's their danger to you. They vote. They also attend rallies. They don't riot. At their very core, they are exactly not what you want them to be. In your video, the good pastor is an evangelical. The bad pastor ain't.

    Here's a thought experiment for you:

    If the evangelicals who attended that J6 Trump rally were the White Christian Nationalists you dream about...and all of the many tens of thousands, not the few hundred who did...joined in the riot, what'd be left of the nation.

    The truth of J6 is that the election of Clouseau was confirmed on the day it was scheduled to happen. If, what?, 100,000+ had suddenly attacked the Capitol?...if your version of reality were, well, real, what would have happened?


  24. by Ponderer on January 26, 2023 6:49 am

    "Lead, you and I are routinely called Trumpsters, which neither one of us are." -Hate, quoting olde dude


    Anyone who was ever willfully and blindly suckered into voting for that felonious, pathologically lying, degenerate con man as you two were, and still to this day defends him and the myriad crimes he committed (and still commits) is a Trumpster. Or as I have come to prefer, a "MAGA Hat".

    Never a shred of concern from either of you for the self-serving crimes he committed against this country and its citizens on so many occasions. All you freaking ever cared about and ever did in here at every opportunity was to deflect blame away from him to the same exact level as I have seen Scientologists and other cult members abjectly and reflexively deny, defend, ignore, misrepresent, and/or minimize any heinous act their Leaders ever did.

    You simply blew off each and every high crime and misdemeanor Trump ever committed on pretty much a daily basis during his entire administration. Without fail. Without consideration of any facts. While making up or promoting "facts" pulled out of professional bullshitters' asses that were in no way facts at all by any definition of the word.

    You two actually did that in here. It was what you were doing in here for years. And you are still doing it today.

    Because you are Trumpsters.

    I am simply never going to let you forget the horrific mistake and total lack of any recognizable, rational judgement you have been exercising in here and trying to cover up for for ages. It doesn't matter a damn if you say you won't vote for him again, or that you may have found a molecule of self respect within yourselves to face reality enough to use the term "despicable" against him.

    If he was the GOP candidate again against Biden in'24 and the race was neck and neck in your states, you'd vote for his despicable orange ass again without even twitching a nerve of angst. Because you are MAGA Hats.

    You are born-again MAGA Hats. Trumpsters. Trump-o-philes. Insurrectionist-loving apologists for a flagrantly treasonous, Constitution violating, sociopathic, racist, misogynist, narcissistic, undeniable career criminal con man who was the worst excuse for a president this country has ever been cursed with.

    But don't blame yourselves too much about what your support for him makes you. As Republicans, you were pretty much most of the way there to begin with. As the rest of the Republican party in Congress has recently and so definitively demonstrated they were.

    But yeah. You are Trumpsters.


    "I'm considered a trumpster (which by definition is racist and without morals)." -olde dude

    That isn't the definition of what a Trumpster is. It can of course be an element of what a Trumpster may be. But I don't think that your being a Trumpster necessarily makes you a racist, od. Or means that you have no morals. Granted, Trump is and was the go-to, hands down, number one choice of all white racists and white supremacists in this country. But there are a lot of non-racists who voted for him and support and defend him too, as you do, simply out of gullibility, misdirected paranoia, and/or willfully blind stupidity. You're simply one of them.

    Your undying support and defense of him and his crimes does show a tremendous lack of critical thinking, logic, and a discernible degree of poor moral judgement, certainly. But you obviously do have some morals. Unfortunately however, what morals you do have have been delusionally misplaced and have mutated into reality denying, full-blown dementia.

    But please don't think that I believe you to be a racist just because you voted for and existentially support Trump.

    There are plenty of other things about you that make you a racist.


  25. by oldedude on January 26, 2023 7:10 am
    I find it interesting that you only have the ability to call names without fact. Like shifty, you make up a lie, spin it to your whim, and repeat. Just like it says on the shampoo bottle. Of course you hate us. We disagree with you. And your ego can't understand how anyone could ever disagree with what you perceive to be true. And like isle, unless we completely agree with you (and many times when we do) we get attacked by the same blathering. So I just take you with a grain of salt. I actually rarely expect myself to answer the rant. Although it's usually fun to read. This is what we were talking about earlier in this thread, although you're more likely to argue without facts than isle. What comes true for me, is that your "beliefs" are your facts, regardless of how based in reality they really are.


  26. by islander on January 26, 2023 7:10 am

    I would suggest, Hate, that you learn a little more about "White Christian Nationalist"...Who they are, what they believe, and what they want.

    The article in the link will help you to have a better understanding of what we're talking about. Here's an excerpt:

    "The terminology is new, but the movement is not. Since the late 1970s, Americans United has been warning Americans about the machinations of the Religious Right, a religio-political force of extreme Christian fundamentalists who seek to tear down the church-state wall, “Christianize” public schools and other government institutions, roll back women’s rights, strip LGBTQ Americans of basic freedoms and impose a theocratic state on the country.

    Are Christian nationalists and the Religious Right just two different terms to describe the same movement? Some researchers say yes, while others feel there are important differences.

    Sarah Posner, a freelance reporter who has tracked white Christian nationalists for decades, finds them to be one and the same; while Katherine Stewart, a researcher whose most recent book is The Power Worshippers: Inside the Rise of Religious Nationalism, said she uses the terms “Religious Right” and “Christian nationalists” but gravitates toward the latter as more descriptive.

    “Although I make use of both terms depending on context, I often think Christian nationalism is a more accurate term,” Stewart said in an interview with Church & State. “The term ‘Religious Right’ suggests to me a social movement arising from the ground up, motivated by a narrow set of cultural and symbolic concerns, and operating within the norms and traditions of pluralistic, democratic politics in America. ‘Chris­tian nationalism’ makes clear that the thing that matters here is really a political movement, and that its politics are profoundly hostile to pluralism and democracy.

    “I also think that there is something not quite accurate about the ‘right’ in ‘Religious Right,’” Stewart continued. “It suggests that this is a conservative movement. But it isn’t. Christian nationalism is a radical movement, and as the Trump era made blindingly clear, it sometimes supports policies and practices that have little to do with traditional conservatism.”
    au.org


  27. by Ponderer on January 26, 2023 7:13 am

    "I find it interesting that you only have the ability to call names without fact. Like shifty, you make up a lie, spin it to your whim, and repeat." -olde dude

    As I have always found your boundless projection, od.


  28. by oldedude on January 26, 2023 7:15 am
    Name fact then.


  29. by Ponderer on January 26, 2023 7:17 am

    I wish you luck, Isle. Unfortunately, there are just so many issues and subjects that Hate is capable of willfully ignoring and being blind to.


  30. by HatetheSwamp on January 26, 2023 7:24 am

    I would suggest, Hate, that you learn a little more about "White Christian Nationalist"...Who they are, what they believe, and what they want.

    Yeah.

    The Nazis had the Jews all figured out, too. An international conspiracy to take over the world...and subjugate everyone to their evil religion.


  31. by Ponderer on January 26, 2023 7:29 am

    Bill... You are using the Nazis' delusions of the Jews as an example to justify your delusions about Christian Nationalism...???


  32. by HatetheSwamp on January 26, 2023 7:33 am

    OD,

    You're bang on that the there's an amazing similarity between po and isle. They end up at the same place. But, here's what I've been thinking: They start out at very different places.

    For po?, po's angry.

    isle?...hates.

    You and I mostly agree but, certainly, not about everything. But, we are people of the real world who go nowhere and do no thing without fact and reason. Those methods makes us, at our core, moderate. We both have strong opinions which are always rooted in reality.

    And, the angry and haters can abide moderation...and reason.


    How close do you think pb is to hitting the nail on the head?


  33. by Ponderer on January 26, 2023 7:59 am

    I think that someone must have driven a nail into your head, Bill.


  34. by HatetheSwamp on January 26, 2023 8:05 am

    No one's asking you, po. The question was to t'other practitioner of reason here.


  35. by Ponderer on January 26, 2023 8:15 am

    That's okay. I don't mind.


  36. by Ponderer on January 26, 2023 8:30 am

    "Reason"?!?!?

    I wish that it was possible for you to grok the enormous hilarity of that word ever emanating out of your keyboard directed towards yourself, Bill.

    You have never in all the years I have known you ever demonstrated the slightest comprehension of what the word means, let alone ever being a "practitioner" of anything even vaguely approaching it yourself.


    I recall many years back when you actually went on a tirade against reason. That it was actually the enemy of what faith was all about for you. You've since demonstrated nothing but contempt for the entire concept of reason in this forum.

    You've depended on your willfully blind faith that your dear Mango Messiah never did anything illegal, inhuman or just plain evil. If the facts go against your faith in him, then those facts are meaningless to you and are to be entirely ignored and baselessly discredited.

    If there is ever a contest between faith and reason for you, you will wipe your ass with reason in a heartbeat. As you always have and still do to this day in here.

    "Practitioner of reason"? In a pig's eye you are.


  37. by oldedude on January 26, 2023 12:48 pm
    Lead,
    I think you're pretty close. We differ on our views like any two people should. Neither one expects us to think alike. That, I think to both of us is just weird. I also agree with the anger v. hate issue, although the end result is many times the same.


  38. by HatetheSwamp on January 26, 2023 1:22 pm

    I recall many years back when you actually went on a tirade against reason. That it was actually the enemy of what faith was all about for you. You've since demonstrated nothing but contempt for the entire concept of reason in this forum.

    I remember that post, too. It was about the efficacy of reason. So many who've posted here over the years suppose that logic and reason are the end all, be all.

    They're fools.

    Much of what's important can't be touched by reason and logic. Logic and reason have their place, but not a very important place, in our existence. pb's point is that a person can only employ reason and logic effectively only when they understand that they are limited tools.


  39. by Ponderer on January 26, 2023 1:43 pm

    Well it was MY point that you have never employed reason in here AT ALL.


  40. by islander on January 26, 2023 3:59 pm

    Ponderer ~ You were absolutely on point when you said, ”I wish that it was possible for you [Hate] to grok the enormous hilarity of that word ever emanating out of your keyboard directed towards yourself, Bill.”

    I fully remember Hate’s position on reason, I highly doubt he’ll acknowledge it but the force behind his deep seated polemics against reason, or what he calls the “the efficacy” of reason have their roots in his religious and cultural background...As Marten Luther said for obvious reasons, “Reason is the Devil’s whore”. 

This is why none of us can ever have a “genuine” reasonable and rational dialogue with Hate.

    Reason and logic are tools and the rest of us know its limits and that the product that results from the use of those tools depends on the skill of the user. A poor carpenter will produce shoddy work if he can’t use the tool properly...and it is not the fault of the tool. Just as someone who is inept at reasoning will come up with shoddy arguments, usually the result of emotion overriding his reason.

    Simply ask Hate to justify his position regarding his doubts about the use of reason without ultimately using “reason” the very thing that he is arguing is flawed and can’t be trusted.

    And Hate cannot use the argument that we think our reasoning is perfect...We don’t...But that is not a valid argument for dissing “reason itself.”


  41. by Ponderer on January 26, 2023 5:02 pm

    Spot on, Isle. 👍


  42. by oldedude on January 26, 2023 6:41 pm
    Lead,
    These last tirades are nothing more than proving our points. If you're a Klan member, anyone that isn't is a liberal. If you're a true Marxist and believe in burning down police stations, anyone not believing the same thing is a Trumpster. This just completely shows that in pretty much the way we both described it.

    I want to thank po and isle for their help in this exercise. We enjoyed your help.


  43. by HatetheSwamp on January 27, 2023 3:20 am

    As Marten (sic) Luther said for obvious reasons, “Reason is the Devil’s whore”. 

This is why none of us can ever have a “genuine” reasonable and rational dialogue with Hate.

    Yeah, isle!

    I forgot about that and, of course, Luther is the hero of those evil evangelicals who go to their churches because we are "justified through faith." And, of course, our buddy Kierkegaard advanced on that sentiment with his call for the wise person to take a "leap of faith."

    (Ironically, po and isle, you two took your leap of faith...irrationally...in reason. Bahahahahahahahahahaha.)

    Luther and Kierkegaard are bang on! As soon as you reason out for us which is the pertiest color, pb'll join you in worshiping reason and logic. Until then, I'll continue to understand that reason and logic are useful tools...and know when, and how to use them.

    No apologies.


  44. by HatetheSwamp on January 27, 2023 3:25 am

    OD,

    I began to realize years ago, shortly after I showed up here on SS, that the people who most ardently defend logic and reason...e.g., po and isle...are the most illogical and irrational.

    The hilarious irony is that they put their faith in reason and logic.


  45. by islander on January 27, 2023 7:18 am
    Smiley😀, pb, and olddude are standing out on the 14th floor balcony when pb says to Smiley😀, ”Ya know, I believe (therefore it must be true) that if you very carefully climb over the rail and hold your arms out “just right” and jump off, you will gently and safely float to the ground unhurt".

    Smiley😀 explains to pb that if he uses logic and reason he’ll understand why that’s not true. Pb rolls his eyes and says with exasperation, "You and your logic and reason! You put way too much confidence in them, you need to take a leap of faith...Watch me!”! Pb then climbs over the rail and leaps off the balcony. Just before he hits the ground at 180 mph, pb realizes and “understands” what Smiley was telling him.

    Olddude, meanwhile, is still standing in the corner of the balcony repeating to himself over and over, “Why do you keep calling me a Klan member just because I’m not a liberal???”


  46. by HatetheSwamp on January 27, 2023 7:25 am

    Still, pb maintains that isle ain't that stoopid. Bahahahahahahahahahaha!


  47. by islander on January 27, 2023 8:07 am

    Hate wrote: "Still, pb maintains that isle ain't that stoopid"

    That's quite true !!!

    Only pb would be stupid enough to jump off the balcony! 👍


  48. by oldedude on January 27, 2023 8:27 am
    This is why you whine like a little biatch when I actually challenge you. You're a "delecate" "man."


  49. by Donna on January 27, 2023 9:35 am

    I've noticed that you've also accused Curt, in fact quite often of being a "delicate man". I say "accused" because you always use the term as a pejorative. Here, you even put the word man in quotes when describing islander. What? Islander isn't a real man because you see him as delicate? To you, real men can't be delicate? Is that what you're saying?





  50. by oldedude on January 27, 2023 9:43 am
    No....


  51. by oldedude on January 27, 2023 9:47 am
    We talked about this at nauseum. Curt, in some aspects, yes. But not always. If you don't get it, you won't.


  52. by islander on January 27, 2023 10:54 am

    Olddude is just hurt because he doesn't think I give him the attention he needs.


  53. by Donna on January 27, 2023 11:25 am

    We talked about this ad nauseum" - od

    Not with me. I don't remember a discussion about that. I confess that I don't get it.


  54. by Curt_Anderson on January 27, 2023 12:04 pm
    Donna,
    I hadn't paying close attention to this thread, then I saw your post in which you asked OD about accusing me of being a "delicate man". I didn't remember if I had posted in this thread or not, but it seems I did...once. I wondered what I said in my post, #5 above, that might have caused OD's outburst. If it was my post that set him off, apparently, OD thinks that real men deny reality.

    Since we've met in person, please tell OD and others how crude and uncouth I am in real life. I hate being thought of as delicate.



  55. by oldedude on January 27, 2023 2:16 pm
    You really consider that "an outburst?" wow... If that's the case, then EVERY post po makes is an "outburst." That's more of a snowflake...


  56. by oldedude on January 27, 2023 5:49 pm
    Not with me. I don't remember a discussion about that. I confess that I don't get it.

    Donna, that wasn't meant to be obnoxious. The folks that aren't delicate, know who each other are, just by talking to each other. It kind of addresses the sheepdog/ sheep/ wolf statements. So you not getting it is okay.


  57. by Ponderer on January 27, 2023 6:02 pm

    But you put "man" in quotes. That means you don't think that "delicate" men are real men.

    Bty, my dad was a delicate man. It's a big part of what made him such a wonderful father.





  58. by Donna on January 27, 2023 6:07 pm

    That ^ was mine.


  59. by oldedude on January 27, 2023 8:26 pm
    "We talked about this ad nauseum" - od

    Not with me. I don't remember a discussion about that. I confess that I don't get it."


    Yes.. we did with indy. You got your panties in a wad over it then also. I don't understand it. Are you the token "protector" of males that are too weak to protect themselves? I think I'd exclude curt from that, but maybe you feel that doing this makes you more "something"... I dunno. You jumped into the fray then also. And you weren't mentioned in it (as usual). You just chose to become a part of the conversation.

    So you can make up anything you want about what I said. It doesn't matter to me. I told you where this came from but is more visceral. Honestly if you don't get it, it's okay. You weren't meant to.

    I'm still wondering why you injected yourself into this...


  60. by islander on January 28, 2023 6:38 am

    I have to laugh at od's "delicate man" stuff !

    Does anybody know what that's all about? Sounds a lot like the sort of things kids with false bravado shout at each other when they are posturing out in the schoolyard !! 🤣

    Seems like od just needs to get out of the house and do something constructive.

    I'd even offer to let him come up here to the Great North Woods and let him clear the snow from my driveway. He'd feel much better when he was done because I'd invite into the house to stand in front of the wood stove to warm up LoL !!


  61. by HatetheSwamp on January 28, 2023 7:39 am

    isle, just thinking. Your premise, in this thread, is that white evangelicals, i.e., White Christian Nationalists present a false form of Christianity that functions as an imposter on the American religious landscape.

    What do you understand genuine, true, Christianity to be?


  62. by islander on January 28, 2023 8:00 am

    What I consider genuine, true, Christianity to be is based on the ideal of “Love your neighbor as yourself” And that means an unselfish love. That is the kind of love that expresses itself when your own sense of well being is dependent on the well being of the one you love. When that other person is suffering or in need so too are you. Much like the love of a mother for her child.

    It’s that simple.



  63. by Donna on January 28, 2023 8:15 am

    I'm not Indy. I didn't take part in that discussion.

    I don't understand your "panties in a wad" putdown. What does that even mean?

    And why do you associate being a "delicate man" with being weak?

    My dad was secure about his manhood. He didn't ever need to engage in the kind of false male bravado you put on display here to prove his manliness.



  64. by HatetheSwamp on January 28, 2023 8:28 am

    isle,

    Clearly, you don't see that among the White Christian Nationalists who are evangelicals. Where do you see it?


  65. by islander on January 28, 2023 8:50 am

    If you want to see them, years ago a philosopher friend of mine said it best ~

    “If you have the good fortune to meet a genuine holy person no matter their ‘religion’ or lack thereof, you will have the best chance to glimpse what Christianity is. Pay no attention to people out to convert you to this or that, real saints will draw you to them without all the hoopla. You can see it in how they move, and in their eyes, and in their lives.”


  66. by HatetheSwamp on January 28, 2023 9:35 am

    isle,

    As you occasionally note to me: You didn't answer my question.


  67. by islander on January 28, 2023 9:44 am

    You asked me two questions...


    ”What do you understand genuine, true, Christianity to be?” ...I answered you in post # 62

    You then asked me...

”Where do you see it?” ... I answered you in post # 65

    “If you have the good fortune to meet a genuine holy person no matter their ‘religion’ or lack thereof, you will have the best chance to glimpse what Christianity is. Pay no attention to people out to convert you to this or that, real saints will draw you to them without all the hoopla. You can see it in how they move, and in their eyes, and in their lives.”



  68. by HatetheSwamp on January 28, 2023 10:02 am

    Fine. Now...

    ANSWER THE EFFIN QUESTION!


  69. by islander on January 28, 2023 1:32 pm

    Hate ~ You demanded ”ANSWER THE EFFIN QUESTION!”

    I did answer your question but I suspect my answer was not something you wanted to hear, therefore you refused to except it as an answer.

    I told you how I understand genuine, true, Christianity. I don't see it as a religion or a particular religion. You then asked me where I saw it, I told you where I saw it and how I recognize it. I saw it in the way people live their lives, it’s a way of living their life that reflects my understanding of true Christianity. 

You apparently were never fortunate enough to meet someone like that, or if you did, you didn’t recognize it as genuine, true, Christianity, since for you least, it doesn't represent what you feel "Christianity" is all about.



  70. by HatetheSwamp on January 28, 2023 1:37 pm

    isle,

    You answered a specific question with a theoretical answer.

    That's fine. Curious, but fine. But, very, very curious. And, as Mr. Spock would say, "Fascinating."


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