By Navy2711 November 6, 2024 6:11 pm Category: Politics (0.0 from 0 votes) Rules of the Post Write A New Article How To Post Here Rate this article (5=best, 0=poor)

Not about Trump, anyway.

For nine years, I've been fighting to get information inside the bubble that my Trump-supporting friends and family reside in. Sane people know exactly what I'm talking about. You try to point to a simple fact, and you're met with "Fake news!" and "No, it was really the Democrats!" and "Uh uh, Trump didn't say that, and if he didn't then everyone says it, and if they don't then it's not illegal, and if it is then it doesn't matter." We've all been there.

Not too long ago, I asked my Trump supporting best friend how he would have reacted if Obama had disparaged the military. What if Obama had said he would date his daughter if she weren't his daughter? What if Obama had threatened to imprison his political enemies?

I don't have to finish this anecdote with my Trump-supporting friend. You already know how it ends. You've lived it.

Well, all that is done. Trump supporters will swim in their bubbles, and I'll go about my business. And not because I'm upset. I'm not stamping my feet in frustration and taking my toys home. It's just that there's no more ... I dunno, there's no more THERE, there. You ever hear that pharse?

Let me put it this way: It used to feel like, even though my friends and family were deluded, we were all still part of this ... *gestures vaguely* ... this whole thing. But now America has spoken. Enough of us, anyway. With Trump winning the popular vote, specifically, I don't feel like I have to fight the propaganda machine, anymore. I'll still sit with my friends/family and listen to their loony tunes nonsense for a little bit, because I enjoy their company. Then I'll gently steer the conversation to ... anything else. I will no longer put effort into trying to wake them up. Simply, that ship has sailed.

Preganant women are going to die. Racism, misogny and homophobia will swell. Authoriatarianism will grow even more in America. We may or may not have (actual) elections in 2028.

That's enough harm. I no longer have to beat my head against a wall for a country that sold its soul for low gas prices.

Comments Start Below

by Curt_Anderson on November 6, 2024 7:30 pm Well said, Navy. More 25 years ago my family and I vacationed in Germany. On several occasions I'd see some old codger and think to myself that he could have very well served in Hitler's army or possibly the Hitlerjugend. His family very likely showed up at Hitler rallies and displayed Hitler's portrait prominently. Since I wouldn't know the old guy's personal history I wasn't an accusatory jackass launching into an anti-Nazi rant. Not that I would if I knew. The past is past. I don't know anybody personally who voted for Trump. I live in blue Oregon. I've never seen a Trump lawn sign in this town. When I get out of town and into the rural parts of Oregon and beyond, I will feel like I did in Germany, wondering about people's fidelity to democracy, equal rights and dignity for all. The allure of an authoritarian leader is too much for some people to resist. by oldedude on November 6, 2024 8:44 pm Not too long ago, I asked my Trump supporting best friend how he would have reacted if Obama had disparaged the military. What if Obama had said he would date his daughter if she weren't his daughter? What if Obama had threatened to imprison his political enemies? That's interesting, because obomber imprisoned more military folks than the last several combined through his ROE "issues." But now America has spoken. Enough of us, anyway. With Trump winning the popular vote, specifically, I don't feel like I have to fight the propaganda machine, anymore. I'll still sit with my friends/family and listen to their loony tunes nonsense for a little bit, because I enjoy their company. Then I'll gently steer the conversation to ... anything else. I will no longer put effort into trying to wake them up. Simply, that ship has sailed. Preganant women are going to die. Racism, misogny and homophobia will swell. Authoriatarianism will grow even more in America. We may or may not have (actual) elections in 2028. That's enough harm. I no longer have to beat my head against a wall for a country that sold its soul for low gas prices. We are at a crux. I agree with that. I won't have to worry about being on the terrorist watch list for a bit. For wanting the schools my grandchildren go to be perped on with the knowledge of the schools, but it being illegal to tell they're parents. The propaganda machine from the left is wonderfully "Himmlerisque." At this point, we are trying to figure out what is a human being. It IS sad women are dying because of stupid laws. I understand that. On the flip side, you sound like you want to part out a human being that's been pithed and call it good. All this is, is a talk. Not hatred. Even Rogan said it was great Musk bought out "X" because podcasts would be a thing of the past. The future is about being energy independent. to do it smarter, and cheaper, and solely independent of other nations (especially OPEC, and Russia/Iran). For the authoritarianism era. Under the dims, the DOJ has succeeded in shitting on the constitution continually. The DOJ continually violates the FISA/ FISC, and the Patriot Act and use it against the American People. The DOJ lied to the courts and prevented US persons from their rights as someone in the US. In the US, it's not only the citizens that have those rights but unlike some countries, it's everyone here. In these cases, it's been US citizens that have been denied their due process Constitutional rights to fair trials by the obomber, and pedojoe administrations. by HatetheSwamp on November 6, 2024 11:41 pm Asufutimaehaehfutbw! by oldedude on November 7, 2024 3:12 am The better news is that none of us have to listen to the "kammy talk" with her kuck and her lies how she flipped on EVERYONE of her political positions in the past four years. The anti-trumpsters will still call him out on any and all minor shifts in thoughts. And calling their own out is impossible. by HatetheSwamp on November 7, 2024 3:33 am Exactly, OD! I told po several times that, if 024 was a straight up or down vote on Trump, Trump would lose, but against the Doddering Old Fool?, or the Dingbat? It's easy to understand why Trump won big. by oldedude on November 7, 2024 4:12 am My preference is that politicians win in very small margins. That means the country is on the right track. When there is a landslide, that means one party has shifted so far out of line of the electorate that it needed correction. In the last election, I agree with that. Others I may not, and I keep that in mind. What it means is that the ruling party needs to be pulled back to reality. The GOP got this in 2020. I wasn't happy, and it's what the "people" wanted. This time, the people spoke and this is what happened. This is a course correction. The harder the left swings the more "right" harder the right goes. And visa-versa. What does this mean? 1. the states decide what the abortion is for their state. Is this correct? I believe it's up to the state. are all the states onboard with what I believe? No. Do I care? Only about my own state. And I don't believe that the "right solution. I do differ with everyone else in my family circle about this. I don't mind. they still have freedom, and so do I. I think it's "interesting" that the incest clause is needed with the libs. Where they don't think that raping your daughter is a problem. Or a pre-pubescent. Many times we have had approval of the "Rape Trees" of the cartels. And few have spoken against it. That is interesting to me. Especially the bloody underwear or multiple rapes. And it's okay to traffic humans like your would a kilo or two of fentanyl. If a human being doesn't mean that much to you, You need to check your Liberal "clock." by meagain on November 7, 2024 9:52 am Great post, Navy and good follow-up, Curt. In my youth, I met and talked with many former Nazis and Fascists and had friends and family who were in the forces occupying Germany. They were deluded in the same way as Americans have been after decades of massive Right Wing propaganda. OD! Congratulations on a combination of posts that serve up a Gich Gallup of delusion. by Indy! on November 7, 2024 9:52 am 100% Navy. As you can see - we deal with two bubble dwellers every day on this board. by HatetheSwamp on November 7, 2024 10:00 am "When I get out of town and into the rural parts of Oregon and beyond, I will feel like I did in Germany, wondering about people's fidelity to democracy, equal rights and dignity for all." Curt, I'm not a big fan of your Good Germaning, which will for soon end for a time. But, your anti-MAGA self? You do that well. You're not po. But, then, no one is. I'm looking forward to the next, at least, two, years! by oldedude on November 7, 2024 10:58 am OD! Congratulations on a combination of posts that serve up a Gich Gallup of delusion. In exactly what respect? I've actually been very careful NOT to start my snoopy happy dance and pissing on the graves of the dims, which I won't do. I also think Lead has done the same. We've both been respectful of the elections. The flip side is that you have no investment in our system. You're a foreigner that doesn't know our system near as well as you think you do. As is shown the numerous times, you should have looked up issues you didn't know anything about, and I had to correct you. And then you said you knew more about US law than Columbia Law School. by Indy! on November 7, 2024 11:57 am The sad part being he's still better informed than you, queenie. by oldedude on November 7, 2024 1:12 pm 'fraid not princess. But he is immensely more knowledgable than you about our system. which puts you in the minus column and can't pass a sixth-grade civics test on our government. by Indy! on November 7, 2024 2:36 pm In 6th grade we had to learn the Declaration of Independence by heart. Then we had to write it out with no references in perfect script and if a comma was out of place - we failed. I would bet the house and every strapon OD's wife uses on him that queenie never even had to learn the DoI at all based on his misinformed posts on this board. by meagain on November 7, 2024 3:29 pm Actually, I corrected you in your misunderstanding of that reference to Columbia Law School, OD. Obviously, it went over your head and you learned nothing. Just one point about yot Gish Gallup. You want abortion to be left to the States. That is a clear indicator that you have no grasp of the ideal of human rights and equality. The rights of women are equal to yours and you have no say in the matter of their application in any idea of morality. Where a woman lives is irrelevant. And I have a huge stake in what happens in America. My son is an American citizen of necessity. He teaches there at An International school and as an adjunct at a leading University. A nephew also is a citizen and a tenure University professor. I care about my son and my grandchildren and about how they will deal with the abhorrent situation. Neither is American by choice: their careers made it necessary. Both and their American born wives would prefer to be here in Canada. by Navy2711 on November 7, 2024 5:16 pm Olde Dude, "That's interesting, because obomber imprisoned more military folks than the last several combined through his ROE "issues."" That's incorrect. by oldedude on November 7, 2024 6:29 pm citation? by Indy! on November 7, 2024 9:07 pm Where's your citation, Odorous? 😌 by oldedude on November 7, 2024 9:46 pm Actually, I corrected you in your misunderstanding of that reference to Columbia Law School, OD. Obviously, it went over your head and you learned nothing. Which one? you were wrong a couple of dozen times. by meagain on November 8, 2024 9:24 am "Which one? you were wrong a couple of dozen times." The one you referred to. How could one now morph into a couple of dozen? If you want to do a repost of your Law school errors,I will be happy to correct you again. Possibly I used language and terms that were beyond your limited comprehension. by Navy2711 on November 8, 2024 10:29 am OldeDude, waiting on your citation for: "obomber imprisoned more military folks than the last several combined through his ROE 'issues.' " by oldedude on November 8, 2024 1:26 pm YOU made the argument. Your turn. by Indy! on November 8, 2024 2:29 pm Nope. It's on you, Old Dud. You made brought it up. by Navy2711 on November 8, 2024 3:49 pm oldedude, Your refusal to cite your source kinda makes it seem like you made this ... "obomber imprisoned more military folks than the last several combined through his ROE 'issues.' " ... up out of thin air. So, what ELSE have you just made up? Usually, when I read your posts, I don't understand much of them, because of the way you communicate. You make references to things without providing the necessary backstory and clarifications, and you just assume other people understand what you're talking about. But you are knowledgeable about some things, like the military and international relations, so I assume that you're talking about SOMETHING. But it turns out that you're just making all this stuff up? by Indy! on November 8, 2024 5:33 pm Everything except the stuff about how badly his parents treated him growing up. That's all real. by oldedude on November 8, 2024 6:06 pm fuck you. What lead this to a complete goatfuck is when Section I and II of the Lieber Code, regulate battlefield conduct. Section IV places limits and exceptions of war and during a battle. obomber took out section IV during his term. This did not allow coalition troops to protect themselves. Retired Army Lt. Gen. William Boykin, who served as deputy undersecretary of defense for Intelligence and was a commander in the Army's super-secret "Delta Force," denounced politicized rules of engagement as a "deliberate plot" within the American armed forces that he says puts political correctness above the safety of the troops. "We've allowed politics to become more important than the lives and safety of those men and women," he says. obomber Iraq 8 in Haditha 4 Enlisted/4 Marine officers. (note: there was also a rape and murder of an Iraqi girl in Haditha. This is not part of this. 1 in Fallujah ***** Afghanistan 2 in Wardak Province 2011 LT Clint Lorance, 2012 Trump- CPO Gallagher Of the 157 rules included in the Lieber Code, perhaps the most relevant punitive sections of the code for recent U.S. conflicts are Rule 11 forbidding cruelty, bad faith, and acts of revenge;[18] Rule 37 requiring the U.S. to acknowledge and protect the property rights and private citizens within areas occupied by United States forces;[19] and Rule 44 prescribing death or other severe punishment against service members looting or committing murder, rape, or mayhem against civilians in occupied areas.[20] While the Rules, supra, from Sections I and II of the Lieber Code tend to regulate battlefield conduct of U.S. forces, Section IV of the Code limits those to whom protection is afforded. Rule 81, for example, defines partisans as uniformed enemy, fighting as part of their army while separated from their main force.[21] However, Rule 82 treats as bandits those who periodically participate in hostilities without being a member of an army then return home to their civilian occupations.[22] Finally, Rule 85 prescribes death for war-rebels, those who rise up against an occupying army.[23] To make it easy. Section I and II, regulate battlefield conduct. Section IV places limits and exceptions of war and during a battle. obomber took out section IV during his term. usnews.com apps.dtic.mil micourthistory.org pbs.org by oldedude on November 8, 2024 6:21 pm Just to add. During the obomber years, the KIA doubled+. AFGHANISTAN YEAR TOTAL US UK OTHER 2003 58 48 0 10 2004 60 52 1 7 2005 131 99 1 31 2006 191 98 39 54 2007 232 117 42 73 2008 295 155 51 89 2009 521 317 108 96 2010 710 498 103 109 2011 563 415 46 102 2012 402 310 44 48 2013 162 128 9 25 2014 75 55 6 14 2015 26 22 2 2 2016 15 13 0 2 2017 17 15 0 2 en.wikipedia.org statista.com by Indy! on November 9, 2024 9:53 am Afghanistan was Bush's war - not Obama's. Must suck having reality planted right there in front of your face after leaving the Fox Fairy Tale Factory lies for a couple minutes to come on the board here, queenie. by oldedude on November 9, 2024 10:39 am It was that shithead obomber that changed the ROE asshole. Who started the war is not part of the discussion. When you actually have something meaningful to say, please raise your hand and ask for permission to speak. Otherwise, STFU. by Indy! on November 9, 2024 10:46 am So you're absolutely fine with Bush creating unnecessary wars that cost us trillions of dollars and thousands of lives, but if Obama does something that MIGHT have cost a few lives - it's Crusty Queenie time and your creating threads to whine all day about it. Got it. You got the Trumper routine down perfect. by oldedude on November 9, 2024 1:40 pm I'm not. That isn't the point. At all. As usual, you completely deflect from what was said when you caught saying something stupid. Back on point. obomber changed the ROE. That change in the ROE killed from double to triple the number of coalition members until trumpster, when he changed it back, or before when Bush was in office. AND during the same time with that change, he pressed charges against out military members that were counter to every other president since Washington (still). The comparison value is during the battle of the bulge, charging members of the 101st ABN with killing Germans they couldn't see because they were behind concealment in the woods. That's how fucking stupid you are. by oldedude on November 9, 2024 1:44 pm I also see navy has mysteriously disappeared for the day. So again, you don't have any friends here. by Indy! on November 9, 2024 7:32 pm I'll tell you how stupid you are, queenie - you still don't understand THERE WAS NO REASON FOR US TO BE IN AFGHANISTAN! The ENTIRE WAR WAS UNNECESSARY. You're fucking rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic pretending that's going to keep the grand old lady afloat. by oldedude on November 9, 2024 7:42 pm Again. that wasn't the issue. THIS IS THE FUCKING QUESTION; b>by Navy2711 on November 8, 2024 3:49 pm oldedude, Your refusal to cite your source kinda makes it seem like you made this ... "obomber imprisoned more military folks than the last several combined through his ROE 'issues.' " ... up out of thin air. So, what ELSE have you just made up?< So what's your answer to that. Or, as usual, are you going under "daddy's" skirts to use your "soothing tool" to feel better about your own fucking self? Or you're going to use toothless mommy that gave your all the STDs? by oldedude on November 9, 2024 7:44 pm And still, there are no answers to that question. by oldedude on November 9, 2024 7:53 pm TO; POS by Navy2711 from November 8, 2024 3:49 pm oldedude, Your refusal to cite your source kinda makes it seem like you made this ... "obomber imprisoned more military folks than the last several combined through his ROE 'issues.' " ... up out of thin air. So, what ELSE have you just made up? I've answered your fucking question. and proved you're a POS. are you going to be a FUCKING COWARD now and not reply? Indy is mocking you and himself. I have more respect for you (because I actually have none for indy even as a piece of whaleshit). And I expect you to respond and a person of "Supposed" honour. by Indy! on November 9, 2024 8:25 pm Translation: "I have no answer to Indy's post so I'll just yell at Navy instead." 😂 by oldedude on November 9, 2024 8:55 pm no. I answered your "stupidity" and actually went on to somthing to someone that had a realistic anwer, which she hasn't done. Where does that put you? by oldedude on November 9, 2024 8:57 pm And yes, I don't answer you because you're not worth answering. If you stay on task, it would help. So it's up to you princess. by Navy2711 on November 10, 2024 12:29 am Olde Dude, 1. Holy jeezuz, you are completely unhinged and need professional help. 2. I had absolutely no idea if I was correct when I said to you, "That's incorrect". That's because I had no idea what you were saying, beyond the general appearance of making some sort of assertion. And that's because you're incomprehensible to someone who hasn't been reading your posts for awhile. I was just trying to stir you up. Shame on me. I did read your post in which you supposedly gave a citation for your comment about Obama and ROE. I am not being hyperbolic when I say that I had to read it about five times, but I did get the gist. And I don't agree that you've made a case for your assertion about "Obama imprisoned more military blah blah". Not that any of that ever mattered, because your statement about Obama and ROE was just a whataboutism. That argument would only be applicable if my original question — "how [would you have reacted] if Obama had disparaged the military?" were being asked by someone who supports Obama's military policy. HOWEVER — props to you. After you demanded a citation without having given one, and then dodged a request for one, you did finally give SOME sort of response. *golf clap* by oldedude on November 10, 2024 6:29 am Actually, that was addressed to princess mostly. And, because you know so little about the situation, I had to give the background. Otherwise, you (and princess) would have a million reasons why it wasn't true. It did shift the discussion blaming bush II for the war, which no one cares about. I gave you the citations, so if you don't like it, try to prove me wrong. Not only did obomber jail far more, but in his "efforts" to "negotiate" with the Taliban, the changes also murdered more (as cited). And if you don't have the citations to prove me wrong, then you need to sit in your corner and colour. by Navy2711 on November 10, 2024 12:19 pm You didnt read my post. I just told you that I dont care about your citation(s) because your claim was a whataboutism from the start. I dont defend Obama's record. My.point had to do with the disparity in the reactions of Trump supporters to Trump and Obama. Let's be real: If Obama had disparaged the military, Trump supporters would have shit their pants so hard they would have flown out of their chairs and up into the clouds. They would have done this regardless of Obama's policies/actions. They would have done this before Obama was even sworn in. The point is that Trump supporters are INSANELY biased for Trump. They will accept ANYTHING he does. And all you have to do to demonstrate this is ask, "What if Obama had done/said that?" by oldedude on November 10, 2024 6:55 pm If Obama had disparaged the military, Trump supporters would have shit their pants so hard they would have flown out of their chairs and up into the clouds. Actually obomber didn't "disparage" the military, he murdered them, AND sent them to jail because of HIS ROE. You really should have read my post. And yes, even CNN and NPR thought it was just flat out WRONG. See #26 of the numbers killed in Afghanistan. Iraq is about the same. In asshole obomber's world, a unit has an RPG on a second story window. Happened a lot over there. It's easier to kill the gunners. To fulfill asshole's ROE, the "squad" (13 people) must clear the building to ensure there's no "civilians." If you know anything at all about the area, There's no one in that building, because they know they'll be killed. Yes, it's that fucking easy. And to clear a building in country takes routinely 20-30 people, IF you don't find holes between the apartments, floors, etc. And there's usually tunnels. With 13 people, you'll take 50% casualties, and it'll take a good 20 minutes to do it. OR, you can all die outside waiting for the fucking QRF that never shows up until after the 3 minute firefight. On I mentioned (in Basra) was on a road checkpoint. This is "the" stronghold of Islamists in country. Two military aged males on one motorcycle, and one military aged male with an AK were racing towards the checkpoint. This was a common thing also in the region. The one with two assholes has a VIED (explosive vest with ball bearings on the outside of the explosives). These things routinely murdered 20-50 people at a time. The LT made the decision, based on everything he knew, and very reasonable intelligence to fire on the three assholes. He is spending 20-life in federal prison for saving his people. *princess" whines because it never understands what I talk about, even though everything is on the internet. For you, if you have a question about any of the acronyms, let me know. I'd be happy to. dcas.dmdc.osd.mil by Indy! on November 11, 2024 12:14 pm OD arguing about the trees - unable to see the forest (as always). The military brainwashes "trains" their recruits to do what they're told and don't question anything. Linear thinking is the only kind of "thinking" allowed on a military base. by Navy2711 on November 11, 2024 5:46 pm Old Dude, I don't think that's a valid comparison. Most people don't know about the ROE issues that you're pointing out. So we can't get immediate feedback from the electorate like we did with Trump's verbal comment. Trump boldly, brazenly disparaged the military on camera, and it was a topic of discussion in the media the next day. And what we saw was immediate outrage from everyone but the Trump supporters, the right-wing media, and Republican sycophants. The left was outraged, and even some Republican politicians who hadn't yet been neutered by Trump expressed their displeasure. But let's say that you're correct. Let's say that Obama imprisoned and murdered soldiers. That wouldn't make it okay for Trump to disparage soldiers, would it? That would just mean that the voters should disqualify both Obama AND Trump from being commander in chief. Right? Prior to Trump, ANY candidate was walking a tightrope when they campaigned. The voters used to hold candidates feet to the fire. And sometimes the voters punished candidates for silly reasons — Howard Dead went from frontrunner to dropping out because of a single hoarse yell. Prior to Trump, had ANY candidate openly and brazenly disparaged the military, there would have been a massive uproar and their approval ratings would drop, at the very least. They might have had to immediately drop out of the race. Trump did it, and although there was some outrage from both the left and right, it ultimately had little effect, and it didn't seem to have ANY effect with people that already supported him . With anyone else, they would either be done, or teetering on the brink of defeat. So, I'm not comparing Obama and his in-office actions/policies. If we're using Obama fairly, we would use him during his first campaign, because that's when Trump made his comment about McCain — during his first campaign. But you could ask the same question of ANYONE. What if [fill in name of anyone] disparaged the troops? For anyone but Trump, there would be massive pushback. So my question stands: What would Trump supporters have done if [insert politican/celebrity/whatever] had openly, brazenly disparage the military on camera. The answer is, they would have lost their minds with outrage. With Trump, many of them didn't care, or they actually cheered. It's a clear indicator of MASSIVE irrational bias toward Trump on the part of his supporters, and a willingness to bend morals and social norms so that they don't have to admit he's a scumbag. by oldedude on November 11, 2024 8:35 pm looking at your the second and third paragraph. THATS what I told you about. again you need to read my sources. even the libblea (leftwing bullshit) approved of this feature. If you had any fairness, and far less of your wet nose up someone's arse, you'd recognize that this is the fairest thing to do. If you want to fight, Don't. If you choose to? I'll fucking eviscerate you in public (so to speak) by oldedude on November 11, 2024 8:46 pm So my question stands: What would Trump supporters have done if [insert politican/celebrity/whatever] had openly, brazenly disparage the military on camera. The answer is, they would have lost their minds with outrage. With Trump, many of them didn't care, or they actually cheered I know you don't give a shit, and I know you're not actually a veteran. WTF should I take anything from you as "truth" about either one of those groups? I keep comparing indy to a "tagger on." Basically it's a whore that can make money when the "boat" comes in. It's nothing more than that. The difference is that a true veteran, a military person, would look at the actions. "ASS-uming" you're some sort of fake veteran, you fail the test. You would rather have your brothers and sisters murdered by some dick faced two bit bullshit greedy motherfucker that wants his military murdered so he's re-elected. Prove me wrong. That's all I ask. Go To Top

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