by oldedude on June 9, 2024 5:10 pm
Curt- I think you've got your mindset completely wrong and extremely strange to me. Maybe it's because you're trying to ride both sides at once.
First- these tunnels are the operations centers (multiple) for Hamas and have been so for 20+ years. I do agree with your "onion" theory, but you needed to start peeling the onion back several kilometers from where you did. Gazans (civilians) are not generally allowed in the tunnels. We saw that right after 10/7. (Civilians) were cowering in their apartments, while Hamas were in the tunnels.
I "assume" that everyone in tunnels is armed and dangerous, and well trained (the others are still in the camps being fed, housed, recruited and trained over the open supervision of the UN). The vast amount of food, medical supplies, water, and electricity is being stole and used by Hamas. There are some Gazans that are stealing some of the goods and taking their "tariff" off the top then giving the rest to Hamas.
The number. I'm hoping there were 274 Hamas fighters killed in the raid. And if the hostages were in the tunnels, it's going to take ~5 or so platoons (say 150 operators each) to get the two to five kilometers to actually find them. (I'm "assuming" their intelligence was within 12 hours from the insertion). Before you say it, remember, it's a tunnel system. There are no roads or straight lines.
There's always that accounting for:
1. booby traps that will kill 20-30 of your folks in one blast. And there's tunnels, which mean there are blind spots all around.
1a. The question then is, how do you take care of your wounded? Hamas already knows your there, so they'll ensure it's a gunfight on their turf to exfiltrate any wounded or dead.
2. Very slow moving by your troops depending on size/ shape of the tunnels and built-in choke points built specifically for that purpose.
3. Communication is crap. Any underground system also carries electronic, and computer cabling and is generally covered by steel. This means the ability of any team to contact another is slim and none.
4. It's their turf. They built it, they operate in it, etc. In order to take a built-up area (city or the like), your ratio needs to be 10:1 in your favor to take it.
So these are just a couple of things to consider.
The other piece of your "question" about going to get someone that is a prisoner of war is interesting. We (the US) is still actively looking for our military that died in WWII to present day. That is what we are known for. No one gets left behind. I doubt if the Israelis are much different than us, especially given the history of abusing corpses. They just brought back a few from Vietnam, which PRVN had been keeping since the 1960's.
by Curt_Anderson on June 9, 2024 6:28 pm
I hope nobody is disappointed that I cannot find much if anything in OD's post to disagree with.
Building a tunnel complex must have been a major infrastructure project. I realize that not everybody in Gaza is permitted into the tunnels. I am skeptical that the average Gazan couldn't point to the tunnel entrances. I suspect there are varying degrees of collaborators in Gaza. I remember reading a poll that reported 73% of Gazans approved of 10/7. Maybe that poll isn't accurate, but suffice to say many Gazans are pro-Hamas. Of course Israel isn't endearing itself to the citizens of Gaza which makes Hamas more popular.
