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Politics selectors, pages, etc.
OK Donna, if not Joe Biden, who?
By Curt_Anderson
September 18, 2023 8:25 am
Category: Politics

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This question goes to all of those people who think that Joe Biden is disqualified (or at least should not be) for running for president because of his age. Who should be the Democratic party nominee? Who is this ideal candidate?

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Comments on "OK Donna, if not Joe Biden, who?":

  1. by HatetheSwamp on September 18, 2023 8:34 am

    I await Donna's reply with anxious anticipation but I'll repeat. Bubba Clinton and the ONE were nuthin at this point, as was Jimmy Carter.

    All three faced a weak GOP opponent. My guess is that if the Dems allow their voters to choose their candidate, as they once did, they'll be in good shape by the end.


  2. by Ponderer on September 18, 2023 1:05 pm

    I could have sworn that Donna and I both mentioned something to the fact that we have no idea who else it should be. Not that anyone else does either.

    Just that we and a majority of the Democratic party wish there was someone else.

    But everything is moot until Biden declares that he's going to step down at the end of his term.


  3. by HatetheSwamp on September 18, 2023 1:18 pm

    But everything is moot until Biden declares that he's going to step down at the end of his term.

    That's only because Dems are lockstepping fascists. Clearly, GOPs don't work that way.


  4. by Curt_Anderson on September 18, 2023 1:24 pm
    Ponderer,
    You and others have a problem then. According to your plan Biden is supposed to announce he's not running and HOPE some Democrat, who is unknown and unscrutinized on a national level, will decide to run.


  5. by Curt_Anderson on September 18, 2023 1:24 pm
    Ponderer,
    You and others have a problem then. According to your plan Biden is supposed to announce he's not running and HOPE some Democrat, who is unknown and unscrutinized on a national level, will decide to run.


  6. by HatetheSwamp on September 18, 2023 2:10 pm

    With the Dems, it's all rigged.


  7. by Donna on September 18, 2023 2:17 pm

    We had something like 13 candidates in 2020, Curt. I think it's ridiculous to worry about whether or not there'd be another candidate who coukd win in '24.



  8. by Curt_Anderson on September 18, 2023 3:19 pm
    Donna,
    Nothing is stopping some Democrat from announcing her/his candidacy and challenging the incumbent. George Wallace did it in 1964. Eugene McCarthy did it in 1968. Ted Kennedy did it in 1980. Lyndon LaRouche did it in 1996. RFK Jr. and Maryanne Williamson are doing it now. Presumably the more politically astute Democrats--who might have been candidates--decided not to challenge Biden in the primaries.

    I expect that some of those might-have-been candidates would rather campaign FOR Biden than against him. Gavin Newsom comes to mind.

    If there really was a viable candidate out there, they must be awfully timid if they are waiting for Biden to announce he's retiring before they make a move.

    The guy you cited from RSN, Jeff Cohen, doesn't like Biden not because of his age but his policies. He doesn't like our support for Ukraine for example. He probably will support Cornel West. He might vote for Trump who says within 24 hours he would have Putin and Zelenskyy to sit down and negotiate a peace settlement. In other words Cohen, West and Trump all take the Neville Chamberlain approach to international diplomacy.


  9. by Ponderer on September 18, 2023 9:09 pm
    "Ponderer,
    You and others have a problem then. According to your plan Biden is supposed to announce he's not running and HOPE some Democrat, who is unknown and unscrutinized on a national level, will decide to run."
    -Curt

    Oh what little faith you have in the Democratic Party, Curt.

    "Nothing is stopping some Democrat from announcing her/his candidacy and challenging the incumbent." -Curt

    Nothing other than having to do it with no help from the DNC. Because it would be seen as a giant fuckyou to Joe Biden. No one with challenge Biden if he stays in. But a lot of folks would get in if he made the choice himself. That's just how the D's roll.

    And Gavin Newsom comes to my mind too. I remember back when he had just started as mayor of San Francisco. I thought then that he had a pretty good path to an eventual presidential run. This cycle might be a tad premature for him. I'm thinking more like '28. But if Biden withdrew, he'd be a good alternative. Several negatives of course. But all candidates will have them.


  10. by Ponderer on September 18, 2023 9:14 pm


    You were saying there was nothing stopping any other Democratic candidate from entering the race...?

    "Whenever an incumbent president is challenged for the nomination, it's disaster for that party." -Curt

    I'd say there's at least that stopping them.



  11. by Curt_Anderson on September 18, 2023 9:35 pm
    Ponderer,
    It's been a disaster both ways: When the incumbent declined to run: LBJ in '68. When the incumbent does run: Carter in '80.

    Btw, there is an article today in the WaPo about Democrats' anxiety like yours. Here's an excerpt:

    Such “Washington whispers” have become far too common among “bed-wetting” Democrats, said Jim Messina, who ran Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign and recently put together a 24-slide deck aiming to calm the jitters, which he sent to prominent Democratic officeholders.

    “I’m not saying that this is going to be easy and he’s fine,” Messina said in an interview. “Look, America is split right down the middle. Both parties are going to get 46 percent, and we’re fighting over the rest.”

    But he said Biden is in a much stronger position than Trump and encouraged Democrats to stop their public and private agonizing. He said one senator texted him immediately after receiving his presentation, which included details on Biden’s string of early endorsements by key groups, the impact of cooling inflation and the popularity of many of the president’s achievements.

    “I’m going to stop bed-wetting now,” the senator wrote.


    washingtonpost.com


  12. by Indy! on September 19, 2023 10:49 am

    The Democrats should simply apply Biden's... ahem... "logic":

    "Joe Biden himself says it best, “don’t compare me to the Almighty, compare me to the alternative”.

    No matter WHO steps up for the Ds - he'll be better than the alternative. 😂


    Peebs, I don't know why you keep pretending like the Ds are in lockstep. They're certainly more scattered than the Rs who show up at every election for whoever is the nominee. A good portion of the Rs protested loudly at Trump being the nominee in 2016 - some even (laughingly) saying they would stay home. Every single one of them voted for Trump in both 2016 and 2020. The only time the Ds win is those rare elections where the R candidate is clearly worse and the left is so exasperated they begrudgingly throw their votes behind the D candidate they can't stand (Biden).


  13. by HatetheSwamp on September 19, 2023 1:25 pm

    Indy,

    C'mon man. Gimme a break.

    In 016, when there was no incumbent the GOPs fielded 18 candidates for their nomination and the Dems only Hillary and independent Bernie. Then the powers that be stood by and watched as Dem leadership cooked the books to foist Hillary on the whole party. You know that.

    In 020 the Dem primary, there were a handful of Dem candidates. Then, suddenly, the party bosses speak and, after the second primary, suddenly everyone falls in line behind the Doddering Old Fool.

    Now, when waaaaaaaaaay more than half of Dem voters want an alternative to the Flatulent Fool, the party bosses insist that it must be Joe.

    Of course, the Dems walk in lockstep!

    And, are you blaming GOPs for supporting their candidate against Hillary? Or, "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap?" What were they supposed to do!!!!!?


  14. by Curt_Anderson on September 19, 2023 2:12 pm
    Is it a requirement among non-Democrats to be mathematically challenged?

    Bernie won fewer primaries and got less of the popular vote. Had he been named the winner in 2016 or 2020 then you might have an argument for a "rigged primaries" or "cooked books".

    Hillary Clinton won the Democratic primaries the same way Joe Biden did. She got more popular votes, 55% to to Sanders' 43%. Joe beat Bernie 52% to 26%.

    Bernie won only 11 state primaries in 2016 and eight in 2020.

    That Biden legitimately beat Trump should not be a surprise to anybody who passed third grade arithmetic. Biden won with 51.2% of the popular vote. That's pretty close to the final RCP polling average that had Biden at 51.4% of the popular vote. Yet you others of your MAGA ilk cannot accept the fact that the 2020 election was accurate, secure and honest.






    en.wikipedia.org
    en.wikipedia.org
    realclearpolitics.com


  15. by HatetheSwamp on September 19, 2023 2:24 pm

    As if, Curt. You're so gullible.

    You keep pretending those primaries were up and up.


  16. by Curt_Anderson on September 19, 2023 3:02 pm
    HtS,
    I would certainly hate to be thought of as gullible. Show me the evidence that the Democratic Primaries were unfairly won by H. Clinton or Joe Biden. Show me something that belies all the state election results and popular vote totals---which were not close.

    What do you know that Bernie Sanders doesn't? He eventually supported both nominees. Bernie has already endorsed Joe Biden for a second term. You wouldn't expect a cheating victim to do that. It's not like he is a loyal-to-the-party soldier. He's not even a registered Democrat.
    apnews.com


  17. by Indy! on September 19, 2023 4:28 pm

    You totally avoided the question, peebs. It had nothing to do with how many candidates were in the primaries (btw - see pic below) - it had to do with how they vote WHEN IT MATTERS. The Rs are ALWAYS in lockstep. The Ds are not - that's the ONLY reason they lose.


  18. by Indy! on September 19, 2023 4:30 pm

    Curt - we've been over this a million times... THE DEMOCRATS ADMITTED both privately AND IN COURT that they rigged the 2016 election. We all know the 2020 election was rigged by Obama and the DNC too.


  19. by Ponderer on September 19, 2023 6:21 pm

    "Curt - we've been over this a million times... THE DEMOCRATS ADMITTED both privately AND IN COURT that they rigged the 2016 election. We all know the 2020 election was rigged by Obama and the DNC too." -Indy!

    What's the lefty version of a MAGA Hatted moron...? Anyone...?


  20. by Curt_Anderson on September 19, 2023 6:35 pm
    "Curt - we've been over this a million times... THE DEMOCRATS ADMITTED both privately AND IN COURT that they rigged the 2016 election. We all know the 2020 election was rigged by Obama and the DNC too." -- Indy

    No, they did not "admit" anything. The DNC lawyers quashed a lawsuit against them by a couple of butthurt Bernie Bros in a Florida court by pointing out that political parties are private organizations that can write their own rules. So the plaintiffs' complaint that the DNC cheated was moot, thus tossed out of court because obviously the DNC can make up whatever rules they want---or ignore their own rules if they want.


  21. by Ponderer on September 20, 2023 7:23 am

    "The DNC lawyers quashed a lawsuit against them by a couple of butthurt Bernie Bros in a Florida court by pointing out that political parties are private organizations that can write their own rules." -Curt


    Exactly, Curt. It apparently is not common knowledge that "Party Nominee for President" is not an elected office. The DNC and RNC are not governmental bodies. They are more like private clubs where their main purpose is to figure out who their club wants to run for president or for other elected offices by means of a referendum of registered voters. And regardless of how any candidate is doing in these primaries, I don't think the parties are under any legal obligation to give any candidate their money and support if they decide they don't want to for whatever reason they have. I could be wrong but I don't think by much.

    Bernie chose to run for president as a member of the "Democrat" party. Even though he isn't a direct official member of it. He always ostensibly acts and votes like a Democrat though, as his votes are mostly in line with the Democratic party line. So he was exceedingly popular with a great deal of Dem voters. But if the party had someone out of the Democratic field who they would rather run as their candidate, it is their decision to make.

    It really saddened me to see so many Bernie supporters go so apeshit and start whining, bitching, and moaning about how he was treated by the DNC. Bernie himself knew what he was getting into and he was even willing to do it twice. He knew what the rules were and he played by them. So did the DNC. And he acepted their decision.

    Bernie Sanders lost not because the DNC had it in for him, but because there were simply not enough voters willing to give him their support. And the DNC felt that their best option was Biden.

    Indy!, Bernie did killer in the first three primary states in the last one. But the majority of forth state, North Carolina, was never going to go for him. And it was that big break for Biden in that state that fueled the DNC in its desire to back him and they pulled out all the stops. You are laboring under the misapprehension that the DNC could have swayed the states that went with Biden to vote for Bernie instead if they had wanted to. They could not have. He just did not have the votes.

    If anyone has issues with the Democratic party and how it runs itself, They are certainly free to start their own club party and run whoever they want to.


  22. by HatetheSwamp on September 20, 2023 8:07 am

    Yeah.

    Exactly.

    The Dems have every right to rig their nomination. But, they should own up.


  23. by Indy! on September 20, 2023 9:21 am

    Got news for you two - I wasn't even a Bernie supporter in 2020. I knew the minute he said he was running that the Ds would never allow him to win because they already admitted in court that they don't care about your two votes or anyone else's. Now, if you guys want to continue to pretend like you have a choice - that you are actually voting for a candidate when you pull the D lever and not a corporation that uses tools like yourselves to put their sock puppets in office in the exact same way Vladimmir Putin pretends he gets "elected" every time he's up for a "vote"? That's up to you. I would only inform you that the one person you can never lie to is yourself. I have been assuming for years that neither of you were too stupid to understand how the Ds operate - especially now that it is out in the open - testimony committed to history the court record but perhaps I have been wrong the entire time.


  24. by Indy! on September 20, 2023 9:25 am

    Let's try it again...

    Got news for you two - I wasn't even a Bernie supporter in 2020. I knew the minute he said he was running that the Ds would never allow him to win because they already admitted in court that they don't care about your two votes or anyone else's. Now, if you guys want to continue to pretend like you have a choice - that you are actually voting for a candidate when you pull the D lever and not a corporation that uses tools like yourselves to put their sock puppets in office in the exact same way Vladimmir Putin pretends he gets "elected" every time he's up for a "vote"? That's up to you. I would only inform you that the one person you can never lie to is yourself. I have been assuming for years that neither of you were too stupid to understand how the Ds operate - especially now that it is out in the open - testimony committed to history the court record but perhaps I have been wrong the entire time.

    However, I do see Pondy - at least - has the right idea. We're starting our own club to vote for candidates who MIGHT be legit. Who MIGHT care about our opinions. Who MIGHT actually do something to help this country and the people who live in it. It's called the "Independent Party" and even though the only hope we have is that they MIGHT do something constructive - it's far better than KNOWING WITHOUT ANY DOUBT AT ALL we will get absolutely nothing from them as we know with the Ds and Rs.


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