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Kammy's absolutely ridiculous "I'm a man" ad
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Oops! Univision accidentally broadcast proof that Kammy used a friggin TELEPROMPTER during her Townhall
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Politics selectors, pages, etc.
"A Catastrophic Debate for Trump"
By Ponderer
September 13, 2024 10:09 am
Category: Politics

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Tuesday’s debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump was a train wreck for him, far worse than anything Team Trump could have imagined.

Ms. Harris was often on offense, leaving Mr. Trump visibly rattled as she launched rocket after rocket at him. A New York Times analysis found she spent 46% of her time on the attack while Mr. Trump devoted 29% of his time to going after her. Debates aren’t won on defense.

Ms. Harris pressed Mr. Trump on the economy, the Ukraine war, foreign policy, healthcare, the Jan. 6 attack and especially abortion, leaving him flustered and often incoherent. In return, he criticized her on border security, climate change and the Israel-Hamas war.

Mr. Trump had to know the vice president would try to get him to lose his cool. She did. She went after him on his multiple indictments. She called him “weak” and belittled him as a six-time bankrupt, spoiled inheritor of wealth. She said his former national security adviser thought him, in her words, “dangerous and unfit” for the Oval Office.

As is frequently the case with Mr. Trump, he let his emotions get the better of him. He took the bait almost every time she put it on the hook, offering a pained smile as she did. Rather than dismissing her attacks and launching his strongest counterarguments against her, Mr. Trump got furious. As her attacks continued, his voice rose. He gripped the podium more often and more firmly. He grimaced and shook his head, at times responding with wild and fanciful rhetoric. Short, deft replies and counterpunches would have been effective. He didn’t deliver them.

Mr. Trump did a terrible job at his most important task—tying her to President Biden’s failed policies. He did an even worse job prosecuting the argument that she’s a far-left politician out of sync with America’s values. The Trump campaign’s mid-debate fact-check bulletins that flooded email inboxes were far more substantive and effective than his responses at the podium.

Mr. Trump’s failure wasn’t for a lack of material. He had plenty in the Biden-Harris administration’s record to work with, especially on inflation and the crisis at the border. In one of his strongest moments, he hit hard on the botched Afghan withdrawal. Even then, he got sucked into an argument about his administration’s negotiations with the Taliban.

There was no sustained, specific indictment of her record on almost any issue. Mr. Trump offered angry responses, pursed lips and eyes darting mostly down, seldom looking at her. And what was it with his makeup that left white circles around his eyes? This was his most important opportunity to make an impression of strength and relative stability.

Both candidates made significant misstatements. Ms. Harris said her opponent “left us the worst unemployment since the Great Depression” and Mr. Trump declared inflation under Biden-Harris “probably the worst in our nation’s history.” But his false statements far outnumbered hers by my count.

Mr. Trump had a great comeback to Ms. Harris’s agenda for change. She’s had 3½ years as vice president, he said, so “why hasn’t she done it?” But that was in his closing statement. It should have been the attack he started with, continually repeated, and closed with, undercutting every new policy proposal she offered.

It matters how debating candidates carry themselves. There, it was no contest. Ms. Harris came across as calm, confident, strong and focused on the future. Mr. Trump came across as hot, angry and fixated on the past, especially his own. She mastered the split screen, projecting confidence and wordlessly undercutting him by smiling while shaking her head as he spoke.

Many undecided and swing voters will make up their minds less on any single issue than on their visceral reactions to the candidates. Ms. Harris did herself much good with that crowd Tuesday. Mr. Trump didn’t.

-Karl Rove


Cited and related links:

  1. rove.com

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Comments on ""A Catastrophic Debate for Trump"":

  1. by Indy! on September 13, 2024 10:20 am

    Nice piece by the Harbinger of Doom. The whole time I was reading it, I actually thought you wrote it, Pondy. It's a nice breakdown although now that I see Rove was responsible for it, I think it might have meant it as a partial motivational tool for the Rs. He was a little too effusive in his love for Kamala. But it was pretty accurate and I can agree with just about everything EXCEPT...

    Mr. Trump had a great comeback to Ms. Harris’s agenda for change. She’s had 3½ years as vice president, he said, so “why hasn’t she done it?”

    That was not even a good comeback imho. I get that the GOP probably wrote that for him and thought it was a real knife in the heart, but when I heard it? My first thought was she's the veep. It's not her agenda while she's in office - it's Biden's. I think everyone who has any experience with politics (who is not trying to help save Trump) understands vp's are basically handmaidens to their presidents who have 98% of the power.


  2. by Indy! on September 13, 2024 10:21 am
    *...I think HE might have meant it...


  3. by HatetheSwamp on September 13, 2024 11:06 am

    There's a lot of truth in what Rove says. Kammy's a dingbat a he allowed her to goad him. Of course, she had a lot of help from the moderators.

    Nevertheless, see links


    newsweek.com
    selectsmart.com


  4. by Indy! on September 13, 2024 11:14 am

    You're lucky the moderators were there to cut Kamala off and turn on Trump's mic when it wasn't his turn to speak. If anything - they helped Trump get MORE time to tell his side of the story and instead he used it to whine about his own personal issues nobody cares about - even his wife refuses to stand by Trump this time around. I guarantee you she's voting for Kamala.


  5. by Donna on September 13, 2024 11:24 am

    The moderators that Trump and his yes-men over at Fox have been whining about almost always allowed Trump to make the final comment during the debate. As a result, Trump ended up being allowed to speak a full 5 minutes more than Kamala, which she didn't whine about... because she ate his lunch and she much tougher than the fake tough guy.




  6. by Indy! on September 13, 2024 11:30 am

    Trump could have had the entire time and just let Kamala have a closing argument and she still would have cleaned his clock.


  7. by HatetheSwamp on September 13, 2024 11:48 am

    Baha.

    The reason Trump spoke longer is that Kammy gave brief canned answers, which often did match the questions, and she stopped talking when her prepared speech was over.

    As you know, I think Kammy won. But! C'mon. Gimme a break, man. If you think Kammy didn't get a helping hand from the moderators, you are out of touch with reality.


  8. by Ponderer on September 13, 2024 11:56 am

    "Kammy's a dingbat a he allowed her to goad him. Of course, she had a lot of help from the moderators." -Hate

    You see, Bill? This is exactly the kind of support and defense of Donald Trump that I was talking about. You are even using his words nearly verbatim that he uses to lamely and asininely defend himself and his pathetically abysmal performance in the debate.

    And that defense and excuses are just as lame and asinine when you use them.

    You can't even come up with a defense of him that he didn't give you. But you'll still give it your all to support and defend your Golden Calf.




  9. by Curt_Anderson on September 13, 2024 11:59 am
    HtS,
    What you call "brief canned answers" is evidence that Harris rehearsed and prepared for the debate. That's a good thing.

    The moderators were able to fact-check obvious falsehoods. It just so happened that the only person on stage who spewed obvious falsehoods was Trump. You can Google what fact-checkers said about the debate. Trump has by far more false ratings that Harris. Most of her questionable statements are of the "this needs context" or "not precisely correct" variety.

    Post-debate fact checkers have the luxury of having time to research the candidates' claims. The moderators didn't.


  10. by HatetheSwamp on September 13, 2024 12:05 pm

    "You see, Bill? This is exactly the kind of support and defense of Donald Trump that I was talking about. You are even using his words nearly verbatim that he uses to lamely and asininely defend himself and his pathetically abysmal performance in the debate."

    No.

    It's objective, reasoned analysis. And, you wanna know how pb can tell? The fact that Trump's chances to win the election have barely dipped.

    As pb predicted, Kammy won a narrow victory. According to Silver, Trump still is favored to win. Nuthin catastrophic for him there. That's just true.

    All through the debate, ole pb was asking himself what moderate and independent common sense voters were seeing. They weren't seeing what you were seeing. And, Kammy's prospects of winning them over, barely improved.

    That's verified fact.

    Does it ever bother you that you are out of touch with reality?


  11. by Donna on September 13, 2024 12:24 pm

    Actually early polls are indicating that Kamala got a 2 or 3 point bump from the debate.

    A 2-pt bump is substantial. For example, a 2% bump across 150,000,000 votes = 3 million votes.



  12. by Curt_Anderson on September 13, 2024 12:34 pm
    Donna,
    That's an interesting mathematical way of looking at that two or 3% polling bump. I like that. Harris also got a big bump in cash, $47 million since the debate. She has a big cash advantage over Trump. That means more ads and door knocking in red counties.


  13. by HatetheSwamp on September 13, 2024 12:42 pm

    Donna,

    Either you are lying or... as you often really are... intentionally misinformed.

    As an example, the most recent Reuters poll, indeed, has Kammy up 5. Truth?, the previous Reuters poll (8/21-28) had Kammy up 4. A negligible change.

    See link


    realclearpolling.com


  14. by Curt_Anderson on September 13, 2024 1:08 pm
    When Harris entered the race she and Trump were both hovering around 44%. He picked up a point and half, she picked up four points and is at 48% in the 538 average of polls. There are fewer undecided voters to be had.
    projects.fivethirtyeight.com


  15. by Donna on September 13, 2024 1:12 pm

    Hts, the average of the polls listed on RCP that were taken exclusively after the debate average put to +3.8 for Kamala.



  16. by Indy! on September 13, 2024 1:17 pm

    What peebs is doing is what Fox taught him to do. Don't worry about the facts, just keep talking and hope somebody buys it. The "Donuts" Vance method.


  17. by Ponderer on September 13, 2024 1:17 pm

    Bill, thank you so much for providing that link.

    I just love the volumes that graph speaks. Trump was always ahead of Biden. You could easily tell that Biden's numbers were just gonna keep bouncing around 44-46%. But Kamala has been on a steady, methodical rise as soon as she entered the race as the Democratic candidate.

    And she's been polling higher than Trump ever has in this entire election cycle for the last three weeks or so! I don't think her rise is topping out just yet, but we will see. I'm just feeling so much positive energy pushing for her, emanating from our country. I pity someone like Hate who is deaf and blind to it.



    I predict that she will hit 50% on this "2024 National: Trump vs. Harris" poll by early October.





  18. by HatetheSwamp on September 13, 2024 1:23 pm

    Donna,

    How far ahead was Kammy in the last polls before the debate?

    Understand. pb was the first SS poster to note on SS that Kammy won the debate.

    KAMMY WON!

    But, to say that the debate was CATASTROPHIC for Trump? Noop.

    Kammy won a slight victory. That was pb's opinion and polls and election analysts agree with pb.


  19. by Ponderer on September 13, 2024 1:24 pm

    "It's objective, reasoned analysis. And, you wanna know how pb can tell? The fact that Trump's chances to win the election have barely dipped." -Hate

    Umm, given what this blue line is doing, "barely dipping" is not necessarily an encouraging thing for your side...

    realclearpolling.com


  20. by Indy! on September 13, 2024 1:28 pm

    I took a look at it on your recommendation, Pondy. I'd just like to add to something you said...

    Trump was always ahead of Biden.

    Yes and since Kamala first passed Trump she hasn't been behind.


  21. by Indy! on September 13, 2024 1:33 pm

    The debate was not catastrophic for Trump only because his followers are idiots - most of them will never leave him and a lot of them wouldn't vote any other way than R even if Hitler were their candidate (in fact - that would probably be the one time the Rs could get more votes than usual). That doesn't change the fact he still got hammered by Kamala. A lot of experts are calling it the worst debate defeat in history - even some on the R side.

    So far as the little blue dip? If you think about it - it was that week where the initial buzz for Kamala replacing Joe was subsiding a bit and people started asking who she "really was" and "where are the policies?" It was a cheap stunt by the Fox crowd - but it can be somewhat effective short term. Kamala's confident, overpowering debate performance put those questions to bed.


  22. by HatetheSwamp on September 14, 2024 4:07 am

    "Umm, given what this blue line is doing, "barely dipping" is not necessarily an encouraging thing for your side..."

    Let me start off with two words. I support Kammy. I support Kammy.

    Here's the scary thing, po though, because we know that polls underestimate Trump's vote. At this point, on RCP, Kammy's up 1.7. But, at this point, the "dithering and diminished" Doddering Old Fool was up 7.1. So, eek!, our beloved Dingbat is behind the Former Trucker's pace by a friggin 5.4%. But, there's still time.

    Perhaps, now, you can understand why Nate Silver still lists OrangeTurdBad as the substantial favorite by 61-39%.

    Remember,...

    Kammy'll have to win the popular vote by at least 2.1%. In 020, the RCP average underestimated Trump's vote by
    2.7. So, Kammy'll have to be ahead at RCP by more than 5 percent in order for her rational supporters, like me, to rest easy on election day.

    But, keep keeping a good thought. She still has a shot.
    realclearpolling.com
    realclearpolling.com


  23. by Ponderer on September 14, 2024 8:24 am

    Well, the Landslide she's gonna eventually beat him by should be plenty.


  24. by HatetheSwamp on September 14, 2024 8:54 am

    po,

    You refuse to answer when I axe how you define landslide, but, it seems to me that the dynamics of the election makes this an election for Trump to lose. The electorate is itching for change, not "four more years, pause."

    IMO, if Kammy gets 300 Electoral College votes, she'll be doing well. That's not a landslide.


    View Video


  25. by Ponderer on September 14, 2024 9:02 am

    Just for you, Bill:

    My definition of "Landslide" for the purposes of my prediction has been from the beginning that there will be mainstream news media networks that will use the term to describe Kamala Harris's victory over Trump. I will make a point to link to examples when it happens.



  26. by HatetheSwamp on September 14, 2024 9:48 am

    I'll think it's a landslide when it's called a landslide on any network that's not MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS or NBC.

    What I think is possible is that the Dingbat wins a modest victory in the Electoral College but a solid victory in the popular vote.


  27. by Indy! on September 14, 2024 11:29 am

    ..."underestimate"... overestimate... almost the same thing... 😂


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