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Where will the polls be on the cusp of the Conventions?
Politics by HatetheSwamp     June 27, 2024 12:29 pm (Rating: 0.0) Last comment by: Curt_Anderson (8 comments) [81 views]


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Oklahoma state superintendent announces all schools must incorporate the Bible and the Ten Commandments in curriculums
Education by HatetheSwamp     June 27, 2024 4:38 pm (Rating: 0.0) Last comment by: Indy! (1 comments) [8 views]


The Ten Commandments must be displayed in Louisiana classrooms under requirement signed into law
Law by HatetheSwamp     June 19, 2024 2:32 pm (Rating: 0.0) Last comment by: Indy! (33 comments) [208 views]


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My baseball analogy debate prediction
Politics by HatetheSwamp     June 26, 2024 9:57 am (Rating: 0.0) Last comment by: Indy! (10 comments) [83 views]


Politics selectors, pages, etc.
It's always been a matter of time
By Ponderer
June 22, 2024 9:41 am
Category: Politics

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The religious right has been on a quest to take over our government and turn America into a Christian theocracy for many decades now. There's no serious way to deny this. They've been quite blatant about it. We're all up there in age now and have witnessed it for ourselves. They have pushed us closer to the edge of that cliff with every Republican administration and Republican Congress in place every chance they've gotten for a very long time.

It's never been enough for them that they are absolutely free to practice their religion in this country to their heart's content. It's never been enough that their churches are not taxed or that their religious freedom is enshrined in the Constitution. Nothing will ever be enough for them concerning their Sacred Quest. Even if they achieve it.

For ages they've been having wet dreams over all the deeply authoritarian, theocratic countries they see lording over every aspect of the lives of every citizen of their countries. Religious conservative bigots would love nothing more than to force their religion into and onto the lives of everyone in America.

Especially the children. The recollection of what became of the doberman puppies in the novel "Animal Farm" comes to mind for me when contemplating Christian theocracy in this country, and how they keep trying to move us all toward their goal.

They would love nothing more than to unconstitutionally and federally mandate the posting in public schools of the Ten Commandments, or any other religious dogma from the Bible that they want to. They absolutely want total theocratic control over a woman's body. They absolutely want to diminish the actual religious freedom we have in this country by usurping it all for themselves. They absolutely want to reestablish their lawful ability to make second-class citizens of and persecute minorities that they deem abominable or sacrilegious. Or that they just don't like. There's really no legitimate or rational way to deny any of what I am saying here. We need only look at their actions over many decades to see the obviousness of it.


In short, they want to turn the United States of America into the "Christian Nation" that they have always delusionally fantasized it is or should be. And they've been inching closer and closer towards this goal over the decades with every Republican Congressperson or president who has ever successfully tried to take another tiny step towards it.


And so here we are. Now. With more religiously conservative ducks in a row for them to accomplish their God-Given Goal than at any time before in our nation's history. Together with their Siamese twin partnership with the Republicans' current, MAGAlomaniacally single-minded mission to turn America into an authoritarian nightmare, and the possible election of their demented, sociopathic, narcissistic, immoral megalomaniac as president, you have the clear and simple recipe for the far right/religious conservatives to utterly destroy America as the free and democratic nation it was founded to be and has been since its inception.


They have never been this close before. And they smell their own blood in the water, so they are pulling out all the stops. They are going for broke. It's as if they know that the Republican party is never going to be in such a position again if they don't pull it all off this time.


And God Almighty help us all if they do.



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Comments on "It's always been a matter of time":

  1. by Curt_Anderson on June 22, 2024 10:19 am
    I recently posted a Trump supporter's comment in the thread "Anonymous comments regarding the Presidential Candidate Selector and the election". The person complained that "Biden has done a terrible job controlling this country".

    I found it interesting that they yearned to be controlled and admitted it. Remember when Republicans whined that there was too much federal control? Trump supporters make no bones about wanting to live in an authoritarian nation. For them, living in a theocratic autocracy would suit them fine.

    I just hope that before it's too late that freedom-loving Americans will take note of the erosion of freedoms that Trump, MAGA and Republicans are attempting to foist upon America.



  2. by HatetheSwamp on June 22, 2024 10:27 am

    The Ten Commandments are a Jewish thing, po. Bahahahahahahahahahaha!


  3. by Curt_Anderson on June 22, 2024 10:47 am
    There are at least three versions of the Ten Commandments: Jewish, Catholic and Protestant. They vary in order and wording. For example, some say "Thou shall not kill" others say more specifically "Thou shall not murder".

    The Jewish version has only nine commandments. Their first "commandment" is merely a statement. Look it up.


  4. by HatetheSwamp on June 22, 2024 10:54 am

    Curt,

    Moronic.

    All are based on the Hebrew text of passages in Exodus and Deuteronomy.


  5. by Ponderer on June 22, 2024 11:51 am

    "I just hope that before it's too late that freedom-loving Americans will take note of the erosion of freedoms that Trump, MAGA and Republicans are attempting to foist upon America." -Curt

    🤞. As do I.

    As I have declared for some time now with my faith-full assertion that Biden will win in a landslide I tell ya.


    "There are at least three versions of the Ten Commandments: Jewish, Catholic and Protestant. They vary in order and wording. For example, some say "Thou shall not kill" others say more specifically "Thou shall not murder"." -Curt

    Shush, Curt...! Hate is trying to make his case that it's laughable to think that the Ten Commandments can be defined as "dogma"....:

    "The Ten Commandments are a Jewish thing, po." -Hate

    "All are based on the Hebrew text of passages in Exodus and Deuteronomy." -Hate


  6. by HatetheSwamp on June 22, 2024 1:31 pm

    Hate is trying to make his case that it's laughable to think that the Ten Commandments can be defined as "dogma"....:

    He absolutely is suggesting that displaying a poster ain't dogma. It may be silly but it ain't dogma.


  7. by Ponderer on June 22, 2024 2:14 pm

    I love being reminded why I never engage Hate directly in any discussions any longer.

    Pathetically asinine and intelligence insulting parsing, such as that last comment of his, in order to allow him to laughably cling to his delusions is far passed being reasoned with.


  8. by HatetheSwamp on June 22, 2024 2:43 pm

    po,

    Tell me. Since the Ten Commandments is Jewish and Moses is revered in Islam, whose EFFINdogma is the Louisiana law preaching?

    Truth? pb regularly kicks your a$$. That's why you dislike engaging him.


  9. by Indy! on June 22, 2024 3:58 pm

    Repubs want what a lot of muslim countries already have - they just don't want to call it what it is... Sharia law.


  10. by oldedude on June 23, 2024 6:58 am
    Po- I wanted to get this in earlier, but life got in the way. I appreciate the thread and your thoughts. It is well thought out, so thanks for that. I do disagree, but it is a good post.

    First, I would say Christians have been losing power since the end of WWII with a couple of exceptions (the southeast especially). The "Christian coalition" has been scattered at best. A large feature of the scattering was that Protestants did not fully support Kennedy (a Catholic), as well as MLK Jr. During the 1950's and 1960's, there were a lot of "Christmas" and "Easter" Christians, and the membership may have been larger, but it was very different than now.

    In the 1980's and 1990's, after the schools said their job could not be "morals," the schools started teaching "moral relativism." That something I agree with is good and must be the "standard" regardless of what the local cultural norm is. This is the age of Billy Graham. The object of his movement (a Protestant, mostly white movement) was just to expose people to Christ and the Christianity. The interesting thing though, was that many saw the "hippy Christians" as evil, Billy saw them as a movement that could a positive influence. Again, there were only select laws, etc the Christian Coalition would support as a whole.

    From about 2000 to present, Graham's "youth movement" has taken off with the groups starting in the 1990's. Concerts of Christian music groups are selling out venues that other artists used the week before. The Christian coalition has finally coalesced and the thought of working with other churches, or at times, other religions is now commonplace.

    I see this as a need of the religious community. Since the 2000's, and especially in the past 5-10 years, there have been numerous attacks mostly to the Christians. Attacks like the DOJ infiltrating CATHOLIC parishes to check for "illegal activity." The interesting thing about this is the complete lack of the same issue with Islamic Mosques, Buddhist Temples, or Protestant churches. Attacks on pro-life centers to include attacks on the workers and bombing the buildings. One might say there are also attacks on abortion clinics (which is true enough), but the rate of arrests is quite different between the two.

    The largest attacks though, have been on parents in schools. This is where I think po has gotten her standard. The biggest issue is this isn't "just" a Christian value. Muslims, have been extremely active in their communities, working actively with Christian, and non- religious parents that see this completely violating their rights as set out by the US Constitution and Federal/ States laws. The applet courts have routinely supported the parents rights to know what their children are doing in school. The argument in this is if the parents are responsible for the child until they are 18, the schools are required, to follow that law. Apparently, the courts agree. Also, in suburban communities, there is a dynamic rise in religious schools and home schooling, some of that organized home schooling. It has also gained support in state "school voucher" programs. I see this as a great idea, forcing "public" schools to perform at least close to private, charter, and home schooling. Many of the pre-K schools start at 3 y/o and continue to a HS diploma. That way, parents have control and a voice of their children's education that entire time.

    So again, thanks po.


  11. by HatetheSwamp on June 23, 2024 8:32 am

    Good thoughts, OD.

    I date the moment that Christianity... or Judeo-Christianity... began to lose hegemony in America with the Supreme Court decision to disallow prayer in public schools in the Murray case in 1963. Over the following years it led the Court to establish the "Lemon Test," which many have argued for years creates a wall of separation between church and state far higher than Jefferson and the most radical Founders could have dreamed of.

    What concerns me about po is the tendency, really, to use the word Christian in the same way Nazis use the words Jew and nigg£r.

    Even the Murray decision allowed for the Bible to be studied in public schools... as literature...

    ... and, honestly, it seems to me, that's what this Ten Commandments law is doing.

    You have to be a po-type theophobe to suspect that, for the Louisiana legislature to order an EFFINposter to be displayed in classrooms is to promote dogma, and that's insane, phobic, or both.

    This will come before the Supreme Court. Even ole pb isn't predicting that the Court will uphold the law. He is suggesting that when the Court abandoned the Lemon Test, it opened the door for this sort of of test case.

    One way that pb's different from po's ilk... and, I suspect that you may be with pb on this...

    I, personally, oppose the display of the Ten Commandments posters, even with the justification Louisiana will argue before the Court...

    ...BUT...

    ...I am able to see that laws I personally disagree with may be constitutional in our government "of the people, by the people and for the people." And, I'm fine with that.

    I go back to my old observation.

    Progressives like po and Curt and Indy want to have their ways foisted on the rest of the country. They really seem to despise our Republic.

    When I disagree with po, it's that more than anything else.


  12. by Ponderer on June 23, 2024 8:41 am

    What a great post! Thanks so much for that, od.

    I have no problem with anyone engaging in any religion or religious activities at all that they want to. As long as they aren't forcing it on others by weaponizing the government for such a purpose. I am perfectly in agreement with the Constitution's protection of the right to engage in any religion one wants to.

    My issue is when any religious group believes that their "freedom of religion" includes establishing a law imposing tenets and dogma of their religion upon all members of society, or in this specific case upon every student in public schools.


    "Hey, don't mind me! Just want to put up a little poster is all..."


  13. by Ponderer on June 23, 2024 8:46 am

    "What concerns me about po is the tendency, really, to use the word Christian in the same way Nazis use the words Jew and nigg£r." -Hate

    "Progressives like po and Curt and Indy want to have their ways foisted on the rest of the country." -Hate

    Hate, of course, has descended to simply making up flaming bullshit lies. As he always eventually does when he can't make a cogent and rational argument to defend himself with.


  14. by oldedude on June 23, 2024 8:57 am
    I guess we can show that since obomber, we can show the DOJ/Treasury/IRS has been weaponized the federal government forcing a violation of freedom of religion and the government not choosing one religion over another by weaponizing the government for such a purpose. Violating the Constitution's protection of the right to engage in any religion one wants to. That's been the "reaction" from (especially) Christian groups. Interestingly, Jewish and Muslim religions are pretty much free of such harassment and "special requirements." And of course, things like Satanism, Wickyn, druidism, etcetcetc haven't been touched. That's been the enlightening of the Christians by them finally banning together.


  15. by Ponderer on June 23, 2024 10:09 am

    "I guess we can show that since obomber, we can show the DOJ/Treasury/IRS has been weaponized the federal government forcing a violation of freedom of religion and the government not choosing one religion over another by weaponizing the government for such a purpose. Violating the Constitution's protection of the right to engage in any religion one wants to." -olde dude

    I suppose you could show that.

    If that ever happened and you had evidence of it to show to back up such hyperbolic, spun propaganda.

    A laughably baseless and ludicrously propagandist interpretation of cherry-picked elements of something to obfuscate another's valid point does not reality make, od. But thanks.



  16. by Indy! on June 23, 2024 10:55 am

    All of America - everyone - bows down to Christians and their fairy tales every day of their lives in this country. Peebs said it himself - "in god we trust" - why not put "in Mother Goose we trust" or "in Captain Kirk we trust" since all 3 things are just as valid thoughts.


  17. by oldedude on June 23, 2024 11:21 am
    "I guess we can show that since obomber, we can show the DOJ/Treasury/IRS has been weaponized the federal government forcing a violation of freedom of religion and the government not choosing one religion over another by weaponizing the government for such a purpose. Violating the Constitution's protection of the right to engage in any religion one wants to." -olde dude

    Sure. Lois Lerner was one of the prime examples. 1. Her offices had specific emails that instructed IRS agents/ workers to limit thefunctions of the conservative 501(3)(c) organizations.

    This is from the House Oversight Committee.
    • Two year investigation – The Committee’s investigation began in February 2012, after concerns about disparate treatment and inappropriate scrutiny of applicants for tax exempt status by the IRS were brought to the Committee’s attention. The underlying concerns were IRS efforts to deny Americans their right to free political speech because of their beliefs. Since May 2013, the Oversight Committee has frequently worked jointly with the House Committee on Ways and Means, which is also investigating the targeting.

    • Lois Lerner ran IRS division where wrongdoing occurred – Lois Lerner is the former Director of Tax-Exempt Organizations (EO) at the IRS. Lerner also publicly broke the news of the targeting by answering a planted question in an otherwise innocuous tax panel on May 10, 2013, prior to the initial TIGTA report.


    The full House of Representatives voted 231-187 to hold Lois G. Lerner in contempt of Congress for refusal to comply with a subpoena duly issued by the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. Lois retired before that could be issued.
    oversight.house.gov
    forbes.com


  18. by Ponderer on June 24, 2024 8:21 am

    Come on, od. You can do better than that I am sure.

    And again, you are spinning the livingshit outta what happened. Can't you present any examples that aren't spun, right wing, horseshit propaganda...?

    The actions of one administrator to simplify the work on as many valid cases as possible does not an administrative conspiracy make, od. They were trying to get at 501(3)(c) organizations that were totally abusing the thing and they simply wanted to simplify their search by focusing on the group that was far and away abusing it way more any other group. It was a totally logical tactic for a place to start. If the Democrats abused 501(3)(c) organizations more than Republicans do, they would have likely started with going after Democrats' groups more.


  19. by oldedude on June 24, 2024 11:21 am
    These are the FACTS, as referenced. NOT my words as usual. That's what's funny about you. I quote something and you, in your heart of hearts, believe I am making it up. NOT the news source giving a factual account. Kind of like the law that I generally quote, and you argue with because you can't seem to look at facts.

    May 10, 2013, NBC, WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Internal Revenue Service is apologizing for inappropriately flagging conservative political groups for additional reviews during the 2012 election to see if they were violating their tax-exempt status.

    Lois Lerner, who heads the IRS unit that oversees tax-exempt groups, said organizations that included the words "tea party" or "patriot" in their applications for tax-exempt status were singled out for additional reviews.

    nbcnews.com


  20. by oldedude on June 24, 2024 11:24 am
    They were trying to get at 501(3)(c) organizations that were totally abusing the thing and they simply wanted to simplify their search by focusing on the group that was far and away abusing it way more any other group.
    Citation?

    Where are YOUR FACTS, especially when the IRS made a public apology for targeting these groups illegally.


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