Post: Why are Republicans so afraid of Ranked choice Vot

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Why are Republicans so afraid of Ranked choice Voting ?

By islander
November 2, 2024 6:12 am
Category: Government

(0.0 from 0 votes)
Rules of the Post

Here in Maine the Republicans fought to prevent RCV. They failed and we have RCV for Federal elections and it works exactly as it should. We are now trying to get it approved for state election but Republicans are against that too.

With ranked choice voting, the winner will have to have 50% or more of the votes meaning that the majority of the voters will have chosen that candidate as one of their selections.

Why are the Republicans so afraid of that?

Cited and related links:

npr.org

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Comments on "Why are Republicans so afraid of Ranked choice Voting ?":

by HatetheSwamp on November 2, 2024 6:29 am

Afraid? How typically judgmental and self-righteous. How friggin typical. Baha.

I would say that many of us are philosophically opposed to it.

But, if it makes you feel better about yourself...

by islander on November 2, 2024 7:26 am

No answers ???

I wonder why !! 😁

by HatetheSwamp on November 2, 2024 7:40 am

I never answer a DO YOU STILL BEAT YOUR WIFE QUESTION FROM po. And, I won't answer one from you, either.

But, I do wonder. Why you you woke Swampcultists thing you're enabled to ask those questions?

There are many ways to have invited that conversation without being self-righteous. It could have been interesting.

by Donna on November 2, 2024 8:17 am

Then tell us why some Republicans are philisophically opposed to ranked choice, HTS.

by oldedude on November 2, 2024 8:51 am
The answer for me is; "one person one vote" not "one person four votes" If I wanted to do that, I'd harvest votes from several hundred people. Or fill out my inlaws (who are dead, but we still got them) ballots

by islander on November 2, 2024 8:55 am

Donna, I’ve found it very interesting that Republicans are so afraid of RCV, to the point that they are banning it in red states. So far not one has been able to give me a straight answer and I don’t mean from just here.

They can’t really explain why they are so against it but I think the answer is one they don’t want to admit. I think they fear they wouldn’t be able to win many elections especially with the MAGA takeover of the Republican Party.

i.ibb.co

by oldedude on November 2, 2024 9:05 am
I did tell you. aaahhhhh fuckit🙄. "delicate" "men?..."😞

by Curt_Anderson on November 2, 2024 9:11 am
Islander,
Republicans LOVE the LACK of rank choice voting because it’s another way for them to thwart the democratic process. Republicans have spent millions promoting Jill Stein in swing states.

GOP-aligned super PAC works to boost Stein in Georgia
politico.com

by oldedude on November 2, 2024 9:16 am
Explain- because what I said supported the constitution and the voting system. You're just fucked up.

by oldedude on November 2, 2024 9:22 am
Here's what I don't understand. Neither curt, nor isle can explain why it's so good. There hasn't been a supportive post of ranked choice voting in this thread. No one can articulate that. It's all been "GOP is stupid of not liking it." Great, someone collect their nuts and tell us why it's so good.

by islander on November 2, 2024 9:36 am

After the votes are counted and certified, with RCV each person only has one vote that counts. That equals one vote one person. There is no good reason, Constitutionally or otherwise, to limit a person's choice as to who they want to represent them. Since the inception of the party system, something the founders hadn't imagined, the reality is that a person only has two choices, RCV puts Independents and third party candidates on an equal footing with the candidates from the two major parties.

by islander on November 2, 2024 9:39 am

"Republicans LOVE the LACK of rank choice voting because it’s another way for them to thwart the democratic process." ~ Curt

Exactly !!! You nailed it Curt. 🍻

by islander on November 2, 2024 10:00 am

Also, of course, with RCV whoever wins the election will have been elected by a majority 50% + votes. No more winners that most of the people didn't want !

by Donna on November 2, 2024 10:06 am

I agree with Curt too.

by oldedude on November 2, 2024 10:27 am
Isle- That told me pretty much nothing. You get 4 votes but only one counts. That makes no sense. I've watched how fucked up AK is in their multiple "elections" and runoffs. To me, it just doesn't make sense.

I'm really not fond of a two party system, and it's better than anything else. The coalition bullshit in Europe isn't stable at all. And 3d party people don't get votes for a reason. Only a small percentage of people fit their ideals and politics. Again, the BS that goes on in AK is just stupid and a waste of money.

Bottom line it makes no sense. It's more expensive. You haven't shown me an upside that would make any difference. It sounds like an "equity" issue to me, which I don't like to begin with. I lean more towards equality of each individual's vote. Not to put people in that are "sorta" voted in. Again. I'm not afraid of it, I think it's stupid. And I think making the changes are stupid and a waste of money to put people that shouldn't get the votes into power. You're thinking equity, not equality.

by HatetheSwamp on November 2, 2024 11:09 am

"I did tell you. aaahhhhh fuckit🙄. "delicate" "men?..."😞"

I did, too.

OD,

I know what isle looks like in real life. Look up CURMUDGEON in the dictionary. There's a sketch of an old man whose face is contorted by decades of hate with his right arm raised in a GET OFF MY LAWN posture.

That's isle. I'm positive.

Bahahahahahahahahahaha, ahhhhhhhh.

by Donna on November 2, 2024 11:24 am

To me, islander comes off as a very nice, likeable person. I'd even go so far as to say that he's the nicest, most likeable person on this forum.

by Curt_Anderson on November 2, 2024 11:27 am
Donna,
What am I, chopped liver?

I agree, Islander seems like a guy I'd like to meet in person.

by Donna on November 2, 2024 11:42 am

😅

I think that islander is nicer than you, me or my wife. I'd love to meet him too.

by HatetheSwamp on November 2, 2024 12:04 pm

"To me, islander comes off as a very nice, likeable person. I'd even go so far as to say that he's the nicest, most likeable person on this forum."

But, Donna. You don't UNDERSTAND, bahahahahahahahahahaha.

Were isle a nice, likable person he'd have introduced this very discussable question something like, "Why are many Republicans opposed to ranked choice voting?"

Insted,...

He phrased the question to be offensive and cantankerous...

... and, an issue that might have elicited fifty thoughtful comments started out nasty and stayed nasty!

by HatetheSwamp on November 2, 2024 12:06 pm

"I think that islander is nicer than you, me or my wife. I'd love to meet him too."

Donna,

Your wife is the most curmudgeonly person here... by far.

by Curt_Anderson on November 2, 2024 1:18 pm
Islander saying that Republicans are afraid of ranked choice voting is no overstatement. They are more than merely "opposed", they are petrified. Ten Republican-leaning states now prohibit ranked choice voting.

by islander on November 2, 2024 1:20 pm

Thanks for the compliments Donna and Curt, you both, along with Ponderer, seem like genuine people, the kind I like. And if weren't for the fact that we live on different sides of the country you folks seem like people I could enjoy having over for a backyard cookout and just hang out and maybe have a beer or two !! 🍻

by Donna on November 2, 2024 1:24 pm

That'd be fun, islander.

by islander on November 2, 2024 1:27 pm

This is for OD, he doesn't seem to understand just how ranked choice voting works;

Ranked choice voting allows voters to rank candidates and ensures the winner gains majority support, as compared to the vast majority of elections, where someone can win even if the majority of the people did not vote for the candidate.

If someone gets a majority of initial votes, they win. If no one gets a majority, the fourth place contender would be eliminated. And voters who ranked that candidate first would have their vote go to their second choice. This process would continue until a candidate gets a majority. This way if you vote for a third party candidate you never have to worry that you’re ‘throwing you vote away’ because if the third party candidate is eliminated that vote goes to your second choice.

You can still put a write in for your choice and if you prefer not to put any alternatives you can vote for your candidate and leave any others blank.

It's really pretty simple and fair.

by Donna on November 2, 2024 1:27 pm

"He phrased the question to be offensive and cantankerous.." - HTS

You do that in every post and we just ignore it.

by Donna on November 2, 2024 1:28 pm

Well, MOST posts.

by Curt_Anderson on November 2, 2024 1:42 pm
Islander,
Last summer we were in Martha's Vineyard visiting my in-laws. Our trip plans were scuttled twice before we finally left on our third attempt. Once because of the relatives having COVID and second time we were at the airport and about to board when the flight was cancelled because of airplane mechanical problems.

Our eventual vacation ended up being shorter than our original plans. We had plans of taking the Downeaster train out of Boston and heading up to Maine for a side trip. Had we, I would have contacted to you in advance to see if you were available for a beer or a meal.

by oldedude on November 2, 2024 1:46 pm
Isle- First, thanks for the Cliff Notes. I appreciate it. If I've heard about it, I would have disregarded it immediately. And I do appreciate the time you took and how it was worded😀.

So what you're saying is that someone with say 20% of the initial vote can win. I'm still saying what I said before.

Third parties are third parties for a reason. Not enough people believe like they do. Nothing that's been said here has made any difference to me.

by meagain on November 2, 2024 2:06 pm
I am not sure that ranked voting in the US would make a difference as ideologies split. (7% of registered voters identify as either Republicans or Democrats and, though Independents lean Republican in the majority, or so I have read, it does not seem enough to affect many races. It would be interesting to know what states had significant numbers of Independents, if any. That might make it clearer.

We thought that here I =n Canada, we would have ranked balloting for the last election, but private polling by the government indicated that a substantial proportion of the population doesn't want and doesn't understand it even though Political conventions use it in their choice of leaders.

Rather than post my views, I think this is a pretty fair summary of the pros and cons. I agree that it is preferable while noting that od is right in suggesting that it sometimes can lead to instability where there is a multitude of parties. But that is not common and I think the "gridlock" is no worse than you have under the Constitutional mess of supposedly separate powers now. At present, the President is immensely more powerful than the other two but, the SC can turn everything on its head with a political majority of judges.

https://www.rankedvote.co/guides/understanding-ranked-choice-voting/pros-and-cons-of-rcv

by islander on November 2, 2024 5:10 pm

"So what you're saying is that someone with say 20% of the initial vote can win. I'm still saying what I said before." ~ OD

The way your voting system is set up now OD, the answer would be yes! The candidate could win with only 20% of the votes, meaning 80% of the voters didn't want him.

However, if you had ranked choice voting that same candidate who initially had 20% would have to have 50% + people who voted for him as one of their ranked choices. The winner in ranked choice voting has to have a majority of the voters who approve of the candidate in order to win.

by oldedude on November 2, 2024 7:09 pm
So if the American Nazi party gets 20% they could conceivably win. Or the Christian right, which I think may be a better possibility, especially with what I have heard through the churches nationwide recently. They're trying to get 40MIL voters that all vote the same way to vote. These are the same folks that are on the terrorist watch lists. And watched their people be arrested for praying across the street of abortion clinics, or perp walked out of their house. Interestingly, all from the federal government.

by Curt_Anderson on November 2, 2024 7:44 pm
OD,
The chances of a Nazi or a Christian Right candidate with 20% of the initial vote eventually winning an election are realistically zilch.

More likely would be a scenario like this:
Democrat candidate 45%
Republican candidate 43%
Libertarian candidate 5%
Constitution candidate 4%
Green Party candidate 3%

The people whose first choice was Green would mostly have the Democrat as their second choice. The people whose first choice was Libertarian or Constitution would mostly have the Republican as their second choice.

In that case the Republican wins with 51% of the vote.

by Indy! on November 2, 2024 8:51 pm

The big secret when it comes to nazis, skinheads, white supremacists, etc... is there just aren't enough of them in the US to swing any elections even in the smaller states or the smaller offices up for election. It's strange anyone would be concerned about the American Nazi Party - especially someone who just voted for a nazi.

by oldedude on November 2, 2024 9:35 pm
princess- Had you read the entire post, I also included the Christian community. The last election, there were 40MIL Christian voters that didn't vote in the nation.

Curt- Many of the GOP are also Christians, and a decent amount of dems (mostly the Muslim, Latino and Black voters)

Or the Christian right, which I think may be a better possibility, especially with what I have heard through the churches nationwide recently.

They're trying to get 40MIL voters (that didn't vote last time) that all vote the same way to vote.

These are the same folks that are on the terrorist watch lists. And watched their people be arrested for praying across the street of abortion clinics, or perp walked out of their house. Interestingly, all from the federal government.

by Indy! on November 2, 2024 9:43 pm

So you think all Christians are nazis, OD? 🤔

by islander on November 3, 2024 4:05 am

” So if the American Nazi party gets 20% they could conceivably win.” ~ OD

Of course they could although I hope it wouldn’t come to that. But to be honest, I’m not as sure as I was just ten years ago that it couldn’t happen. I think it would be more easily accomplished if they gave themselves a different name.

Getting back to ranked choice voting, former Maine Governor LePage won with only 37% of the votes. This was simply because there were 5 candidates running. LePage has often been ranked among the least popular governors in the country.

Ranked choice voting could have prevented that since the winner of any election would have to have the approval of 50+% of the voters. That election helped move Maine voters to approve ranked choice voting. The Republicans were unable to prevent approval of RCV for federal elections but unfortunately they have so far been able to keep it from being enacted for state elections

by oldedude on November 3, 2024 4:21 am
Isle- Still not a convincing argument for me. Again, I didn't know much about it, and thanks for bearing with me. It still sounds like moving towards coalition government. I'm not a fan of that, and like me said, few governments actually get things done, so there's that.

by meagain on November 3, 2024 10:24 am
"In that case the Republican wins with 51% of the vote."

I think it might be more complicated, Curt. Assume the Geens split 2 - 1 Democrat, then to achieve 51%, the Republicans would have to get 7% of the 9% available from the other two Parties. I don't follow it closely enough to guess at that split.

by Curt_Anderson on November 3, 2024 11:03 am
Meagain,
In America the minor parties tend to be more extreme than their major party counterparts.
The Green Party, the Socialists, Communists, etc. are generally to the left of the Democrats.
The Constitution Party, Libertarians, Nazis, etc. are generally to the right of Republicans.

If you are a voter on one fringe or the other, your first choice might be a third party candidate, but your second choice would likely be a major party candidate who is at least closer on the political spectrum.

by oldedude on November 3, 2024 6:55 pm
I've met libertarians that are much more liberal than you (who claim to be a "libertarian" of sorts. One that doesn't believe in the government intervening with catastrophes the government created, or the invasion at your will but not at others. This is true of libertarians on both sides. Like you I don't believe the government should be able to enter a house without legal cause and a strong warrant. I don't believe the government should be caring who we love. I don't believe in WTF goes on (in my case, with the exception of abusing children).

In my case. Taxes should be kept constitutionally. Thusly, there are succent laws the Federal government is allowed to have. According to the 10th Amendment, the rest are given to the states. This according to the Constitutional compromise of 1787.

by islander on November 4, 2024 6:06 am

I think among the things ranked choice voting will do, along with preventing a candidate whom the majority of the voters oppose from winning the election, is to help reduce the extreme partisanship that exists now since most of the voters would have the winner as one of their selections.

I think it’s a good thing to have more than just the two choices we have now since if you oppose both candidates, you are in reality forced to vote for someone you don’t want, so you have to choose the lesser of the two evils.

At first, I don’t know how much difference it will make in the outcome of an election even knowing that you can vote for someone other than the either candidate of two major parties and you won’t be throwing your vote away, but I think it will encourage independents and others to start participating with more confidence and voters will start to realize that they really do have more than two choices.

I also think the two parties will have to select candidates who have a broader appeal to the voters.

I still don't know why Republicans fear RCV but the do.

by HatetheSwamp on November 4, 2024 6:30 am

As Jesus said, and Sean Hannity says, "Let not your heart be troubled."

Eh?

by meagain on November 4, 2024 9:28 am
Conservatives everywhere are afraid of ranked balloting and it is quite understandable. Societies tend to be conservative in practice but people in general are more liberal: more progressive, by a substantial margin.

A case in point is here in Ontario. A couple of cities had introduced ranked ballots for their municipal elections. The Conservative government of the Province passed an Act banning them and making it impossible for anything other than FPTP.

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