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James Comer hopes for divine intervention to save him from embarrassing impeachment fiasco.
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News selectors, pages, etc.
GOP has now gone full Commie and can now be officially designated as the "Reds"
By islander
August 9, 2023 3:09 pm
Category: News

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Naturally they are all cheering for Putin !!

“Western officials are increasingly worried that Russian President Vladimir Putin is prolonging his efforts in Ukraine in the hopes that former President Donald Trump or another Republican candidate will take the WH in 2024 and cut US funding to Ukraine.” Business Insider

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Comments on "GOP has now gone full Commie and can now be officially designated as the "Reds"":

  1. by Indy! on August 9, 2023 8:03 pm

    Fuck Ukraine. If Trump did that I would celebrate and you should too, Islander. It's a money pit used for laundering tax payer dollars - nothing else. Best thing that could happen to the free world would be for Putin to take Ukraine off our hands.


  2. by islander on August 10, 2023 4:03 am

    Indy ~ Funny, that's exactly what Putin and the Reds in this country would tell you.

    Give us what we want and it will save you money $$

    Yup! It costs money to fight back so just let 'em invade a sovereign country that is fighting back and give it to putin.

    The Ukrainians are doing the fighting and sacrificing their lives to save their country. We, and the rest of the free world are aiding them by supplying them with the weapons they need and they are doing what everyone thought was impossible. They are winning a war against our arch enemy. They are showing the world that this big powerful country, Russia and it's military is a paper Tiger.

    War is a filthy dirty business but it's still a reality that we can't just wish away if we are to survive. The money Putin and the Reds in this country claim we will save is money that stays in this country and is recirculated by way of the military industrial complex. Millions of Americans work in companies that depend on those defense contracts. This is a sad reality but it is a reality. Giving in to Putin at this point when he is losing is shortsighted to say the least. But it is what Putin and the Reds here in our own country want us to do.


  3. by HatetheSwamp on August 10, 2023 4:52 am

    Indy,

    It'd've been fun to have you here when Ukraine started.

    From before Russia actually invaded, I was saying that Joe's leadership is weak and inept. I've been proved right. The way "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap" is running our involvement? we could be doing this for decades and spend many tens of billions of dollars. Joe's arranging it so Ukraine loses slowly.

    Progressives are lousy war hawks. isle's approach to Ukraine is a military equivalent of "Save the Whales." It's tragic and ludicrous.

    That's folly.


  4. by islander on August 10, 2023 6:08 am

    The Reds in this country have the same goals as the Reds in Europe. They want to destroy Democracy, you’ve heard them enough times telling us that our country is not a Democracy...It’s a Republic !!! You know, just like “The People’s Republic of China and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. They want an autocratic government here as well.

    We now even have Red States here in our own country just like they’ve had and still have in Europe. And the Reds have accomplished this just like they said they would, using propaganda and psychological manipulation. The Reds in our country call themselves the MAGA Republicans and have taken complete control of the Republican party. 



  5. by islander on August 10, 2023 6:16 am

    The Reds here even have their own version of the Red Star hats.

    Red states
    Red hats
    Anti democracy
    Pro autocracy
    And of course they rely heavily on promoting a personality cult leadership


  6. by HatetheSwamp on August 10, 2023 6:23 am

    The Reds in our country call themselves the MAGA Republicans and have taken complete control of the Republican party. 


    Translation:

    I HAVE TDS!
    I HAVE TDS!
    I HAVE TDS!
    I HAVE TDS!
    I HAVE TDS!
    I HAVE TDS!
    I HAVE TDS!
    I HAVE TDS!
    I HAVE TDS!
    I HAVE TDS!

    Bahahahahahahahahahaha baha baha baha.


  7. by islander on August 10, 2023 6:32 am

    As you all can see with Hate's rebuttal post above, this is what the Reds in this country have been reduced to. 🍻


  8. by HatetheSwamp on August 10, 2023 7:09 am

    Keeheeheeheeheeheeheehee, isle. Taking us back 70, as po'd really say, effinyears, eh.

    The ol Red Scare 2.0!

    Baha baha bahahahahahahahahahaha ha!


  9. by oldedude on August 10, 2023 7:27 am
    I'm worried about an endless war. Like I've said repeatedly, I'm extremely worried. Russia has the support (in money, equipment, and political clout) which is more worrisome but fair. We also know some of the munitions we gave Ukraine are now on the markets. My guess is that they're ending up in Africa to support Chinese takeover of that area to rape it of precious metals.


    I think it's interesting that people "claiming" to be the constitutionalists (which I keep disproving over and over again ) can't tell the difference between GOP and Liberaltarians.

    How soon the sheeple forget the demonstrations of the '70's when we were to get out of VietNam. Then of course, they wanted out of Iraq. And supported pedojoe when he left Afghanistan on the skids of our helicopters (again) as the biggest form of cowardice. THAT fed right into Putin's propaganda machine as amerika being the most impotent country in the world. It was on constant replay in Russia for two weeks after we left. And the folks who gave their life savings to actually get people out that were going to be murdered by the Taliban were also part and parcel of that. Message: "amerika is a flaccid country of impotent leaders and Russia is a country of real men and women." (his words).

    Because flaccid pedojoe looked so bad Putin could invade Ukraine and we'd be like a british bobbie "halt, or i'll say halt again"


    *amerika this is a transliteration from russian.


  10. by Ponderer on August 10, 2023 7:45 am

    "Fuck Ukraine." -Indy!

    Fuckyou, Indy!.



  11. by Ponderer on August 10, 2023 7:53 am

    "Best thing that could happen to the free world would be for Putin to take Ukraine off our hands." -Indy!

    Again, fuckyou, Indy!.

    Once Russia has Ukraine, what other countries can Russia "take off our hands" in Putin's eternal mission to take whatever countries he wants to? He's certainly not going to stop there. Do you draw a line anywhere regarding countries that you are willing to give away to Russia?

    I'm surrounded by narcissistic sociopaths.



  12. by Ponderer on August 10, 2023 8:05 am

    "How soon the sheeple forget the demonstrations of the '70's when we were to get out of VietNam." -olde dude

    False equivalency.

    "Then of course, they wanted out of Iraq." -olde dude

    False equivalency.


    "Message: "amerika is a flaccid country of impotent leaders and Russia is a country of real men and women." (his words).

    Because flaccid pedojoe looked so bad Putin could invade Ukraine and we'd be like a british bobbie "halt, or i'll say halt again""
    -olde dude


    So what I'm hearing is that you are afraid of a long and protracted war... but America needs to be more manly and..... what? Send even more arms and logistical help...? Send American troops in...? Give them all the same things we give Israel...? Start sending missiles into Russia from NATO countries...? Carpet bomb Moscow...?

    What is Biden doing in Ukraine that you seem to find so wussy?



  13. by Donna on August 10, 2023 8:17 am

    I just read about a new CNN poll which found that 55% of those polled want fhe US to stop supporting Ukraine.

    Putin is waiting US out.

    Many Americans have this false idea that if the US stopped spending money to help Ukraine, then that money would go into their pockets instead.



  14. by Ponderer on August 10, 2023 8:22 am

    "I just read about a new CNN poll which found that 55% of those polled want the US to stop supporting Ukraine." -Donna

    Which is a sad testament to the effectiveness of the right's Anti-Whatever-Biden-Is-Doing propaganda.


  15. by HatetheSwamp on August 10, 2023 10:57 am

    Donna,

    Are you surprised that support for Ukraine is waning? It's classic USA in the 21st century.


  16. by Ponderer on August 10, 2023 11:06 am

    I think we're a little surprised that not enough people seem to comprehend that this conflict is the one most worthy of our country's support since World War Two.

    But again, this is because of effective propaganda by the MAGA Republicans.



  17. by oldedude on August 10, 2023 11:17 am
    "How soon the sheeple forget the demonstrations of the '70's when we were to get out of VietNam." -olde dude

    False equivalency.

    How? Please explain

    "Then of course, they wanted out of Iraq." -olde dude

    False equivalency.

    ibid

    So what I'm hearing is that you are afraid of a long and protracted war... but America needs to be more manly and..... what? Send even more arms and logistical help...? Send American troops in...? Give them all the same things we give Israel...? Start sending missiles into Russia from NATO countries...? Carpet bomb Moscow...?

    Huh? WTFO? My thought on this haven't changed since the incursion. So far he hasn't sent in troops (directly), so that's good. The only minor change I would make is to increase the ammunition and other things we're sending, and put people back to work full time with good benefits.

    What is Biden doing in Ukraine that you seem to find so wussy?

    pedojoe has proven himself a useless global leader. LIKE I SAID Afghanistan was a wakeup call to NATO, SEATO, and FYVES. We don't have any capability to run any type of operation whatsoever. Like I said THAT'S WHY PUTIN FELT HE COULD GO INTO UKRAINE IN THE FIRST PLACE.


  18. by oldedude on August 10, 2023 11:19 am
    Lead- Progressives are lousy war hawks. isle's approach to Ukraine is a military equivalent of "Save the Whales." It's tragic and ludicrous.

    concur. no exceptions.


  19. by Ponderer on August 10, 2023 11:36 am

    "The only minor change I would make is to increase the ammunition and other things we're sending" -olde dude

    Biden is certainly trying to do that. But I also agree with you that more should be sent.

    I happen to think that we should have sent them at least a couple dozen A10's, which are about to be mothballed anyways. Could you imagine what just one flight of A10's coulda done to that 40 Mile long traffic jam of Russian trucks and tanks at the beginning of all this? I bet there were A10 pilots here in Tucson who were drooling looking at images of that.


    There are scores of A10's here at Davis Montham AFB. We get an air show practically every time we go out somewhere. It was a tremendously successful airplane. Damn that thing has been an effective workhorse. It's sad to see them go.

    Air Force proposes cutting most A-10s from Davis-Monthan -at link

    tucson.com


  20. by Ponderer on August 10, 2023 11:49 am

    This is the plane that is sort of going to replace the A10s...


    The OA-1K

    A PROP PLANE...?!?!

    It should be a heck of a lot cheaper to operate and maintain. The A10 was sub-sonic anyways. And the OA-1Ks are capable of being updated with the latest electronics and weaponry. Apparently it was getting too difficult or even impossible to upgrade the A10 with the latest technology.


  21. by Ponderer on August 10, 2023 11:53 am

    Looks kinda like a P-51 Mustang on steroids.


  22. by oldedude on August 10, 2023 12:02 pm
    Yeah, the warthog has done me, personally, a lot of good and saved our bacon several times over. They're a really difficult plane to fly. That said, this is exactly the kind of war that aircraft was built for. Nimble, quick, quiet, and really frigging deadly. I think that would be an excellent idea.


    Every time the AF talks about getting rid of them, the Marine Corps wants a direct trade. Aircraft, crews, ground crews, instructors. The AF caves in and keeps them. It would make more sense for the Corps to have them, but it's one service pissing in their corner. We worked with them in europe when they first came out. We still had F4s then, and they were going to replace them.

    They're like the 130s, both aircraft are really, really old, but they still are the best for what they're meant to do.


  23. by Ponderer on August 10, 2023 12:40 pm

    Yeah, there's always been a lot of blow back from Arizona congress people about mothballing it. The base is accountable for a great deal of revenue to Tucson and the state. Lots of jobs will have to be replaced with something.


  24. by islander on August 10, 2023 1:31 pm

    "by oldedude on August 10, 2023 11:17 am"

    "How soon the sheeple forget the demonstrations of the '70's when we were to get out of VietNam." -olde dude

    False equivalency. -Pondy
    How? Please explain ~old dude

    55,000 American service men and woman lost their lives in Viet Nam in a pointless war.

    Biden did not make that same mistake. We and the rest of the free world are backing (not involved in combat) a country fighting for its survival after being invaded by Putin. Biden and our allies around the world are providing Ukraine with military aid, weapons, munitions and intelligence...and... Ukraine, with their own fighters is beating Putin’s military, much to the chagrin of Putin and the Reds here in our country.



    "Then of course, they wanted out of Iraq." -old dude

    False equivalency. -Pondy
    ibid ~ old dude

    Bush lied to the country and invaded Iraq under false pretenses. As of July 19, 2021, according to the U.S. Department of Defense casualty website, there were 4,431 American deaths ...Iraq war logs:

    Classified US military documents Thousands of Iraqis lost their lives. 7,299 civilians are documented to have been killed, primarily by U.S. air and ground forces. Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006 (per the Iraq Family Health Survey) to 1,033,000 excess deaths (per the 2007 Opinion Research Business (ORB) survey)

    Don't let Lead and the other Reds in our country lead you astray on this with false equivalencies.


  25. by oldedude on August 10, 2023 2:01 pm
    Bush lied to the country and invaded Iraq under false pretenses.

    What exactly was the lie?


    (During the Iraq war, at least 17 American service members and seven Iraqi police officers were exposed to aging chemical weapons abandoned years earlier.)
    nytimes.com


  26. by Ponderer on August 10, 2023 2:03 pm

    "What exactly was the lie?" -olde dude


    WMD.



  27. by oldedude on August 10, 2023 2:04 pm
    See above.


  28. by Indy! on August 10, 2023 3:42 pm
    by islander on August 10, 2023 4:03 am

    Indy ~ Funny, that's exactly what Putin and the Reds in this country would tell you.



    You know what else is funny, Islander? The party known for accusing others of being Russians or "Reds" used to be the GOP. 😘


  29. by HatetheSwamp on August 10, 2023 3:44 pm

    Right, Indy. I'm flummoxed. Usually I can figure out what isle's point is, as convoluted as it may be. But, this time?... Oy!


  30. by Indy! on August 10, 2023 3:47 pm

    It's comically sad how far the Democrats on this board have ventured to the right. Calling people who disagree with them the classic slurs of the McCarthy era and unquestionably supporting war for profit without and hesitation or second thought at all. Rachel - a hard right commentator no different than Sean Hannity - says Ukraine is a righteous way to keep missile manufacturers in business and every wingnut on this board falls for it hook, line and sinker. We're murdering innocent people for the almighty dollar (again) and Islander, Pondy, Donna and Curt are cheerleading the atrocities.


  31. by Indy! on August 10, 2023 3:51 pm

    And then they have the absolute gall to pretend Biden's Ukraine is any different than Bush's Iraq. Both are nothing more than marketing campaigns for Lockheed Martin. Iraq gained nothing from our invasion and Ukraine gains nothing from us offloading our bomb inventory at their Nazi HQ. The US has never brought freedom or democracy to ANY country at the point of a gun. How can you folks be this STUPID?


  32. by islander on August 10, 2023 4:33 pm

    Looks like Old dude didn't read the article he posted.


  33. by islander on August 10, 2023 4:34 pm

    Indy and the "Reds" never got the irony in the "Reds" analogy.

    irony: a literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the full significance of a character's words or actions are clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character.


  34. by oldedude on August 10, 2023 4:56 pm
    Looks like Old dude didn't read the article he posted.

    I did. Argue with me there weren't any WMDs. They found about 5,000 mixed ordinance. They were typically a russian mix of choking agents, blood agents, and nerve agents.


  35. by oldedude on August 10, 2023 4:57 pm
    Maybe it was so moronic no one chose to think of it as an issue.


  36. by Ponderer on August 10, 2023 5:35 pm

    "It's comically sad how far the Democrats on this board have ventured to the right." -Indy!

    It's sadly comical how far left you have ventured to the far left.

    I mean faaaaaaar left. Donna and I are still exactly where we started. It's only because you are moving in a lefterly direction that it looks like we've moved.


    "Rachel - a hard right commentator no different than Sean Hannity" -Indy!

    "And then they have the absolute gall to pretend Biden's Ukraine is any different than Bush's Iraq." -Indy!

    And the Dems are the same thing as the Republicans and blah blah blah blah blah.

    It must be so simple for you to just generalize everything into being like everything else. What a simple world you live in. I'm almost jealous.



  37. by Donna on August 10, 2023 5:35 pm

    There were Americans who were opposed to the U S. entering WW2 too. If they had got their way, Hitler would have conquered all of Europe and probably beyond that.


  38. by Indy! on August 10, 2023 5:40 pm

    You're not nearly as clever as you think, Islander. Still the D tool you were when I was on the board before - but even more gullible and willing to regurgitate the corporotacracy's talking points.


  39. by Indy! on August 10, 2023 5:41 pm

    And now, straight from the DNC...

    Donna with the oldest irrelevant cliché in the book...

    "There were Americans who were opposed to the U S. entering WW2 too. If they had got their way, Hitler would have conquered all of Europe and probably beyond that."


  40. by Indy! on August 10, 2023 5:45 pm

    The only difference between who I was before and who I am now, Pondy - is I'm even sicker of this country never moving a fucking inch to the left. You and your wife have grown FAR "faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar" too comfortable with the Ds perpetual rightward trajectory which now has in the party indiscernible from the George W. Bush era Republicans. Oh wait, no - Bush was a "compassionate" conservative whereas you're just conservative.


  41. by Donna on August 10, 2023 5:47 pm

    I don't care what you think, Indy... about anything.


  42. by Ponderer on August 10, 2023 5:48 pm

    "They were typically a russian mix of choking agents, blood agents, and nerve agents." -olde dude

    I remember hearing about those. Remind me again, how many years past expiration dates were they...? Rendering the majority of it into little more than toxic waste...?

    Oh! And could you explain again how Saddam was going to get all that stuff to the United States, where they could use them for the mass destruction such munitions are intended for? Wooden drones was it...?

    Bottom line: Americans had nothing whatsoever to fear from Saddam's "Weapons of Mass Destruction". Regardless of how we were supposed to fear "Smoking guns being nuclear mushroom clouds".

    WMDs was a lie. A bald-faced, propagandist lie, olde dude.


    theguardian.com


  43. by Indy! on August 10, 2023 5:55 pm

    by Donna on August 10, 2023 5:47 pm




    Self-evident, Donna. We are on opposite ends of the political spectrum.


  44. by oldedude on August 10, 2023 7:58 pm
    WMDs was a lie. A bald-faced, propagandist lie, olde dude.

    Actually, what you believe you fell for hook, line, and sinker. So gullible. I gave you just one of the mainstream organizations that confirmed it. YOUR media refused to say anything because then stupid people would know the truth about the lies they told. If you believe the facts doesn't make any difference to me at all. I've seen it. It's part of my VA claim. It's recognized by the US government as a valid claim for VA. If it doesn't exist, why would the government spend a couple of million dollars for those affected? Your logic makes no sense.


  45. by islander on August 11, 2023 6:58 am

    You're not nearly as clever as you think, Islander ~ Indy

    Nah! I’m not particularly clever at all, nor do I have any illusions that I am. Usually all you have to do is be straightforward and honest and you’ll probably seem clever to some people who try to hide the truth even from themselves and have to rack their brains trying to rationalize their lies and deceptions.

    You are a cynic and that’s ok as I sometimes feel that way myself. A cynic is usually a disappointed idealist, although sometimes it is just a manifestation of a persons inherent pessimism. I’m an idealist but I’m a pragmatic idealist. I learned long ago that most of what I strive for will probably never come to fruition in my lifetime but I don’t demand or expect it to. I know we have to live with the imperfections in all we see and that includes our government...But we can continually strive to make it better one step at a time.





  46. by Ponderer on August 11, 2023 7:06 am

    First of all, od, I never said there weren't "chemical weapons" found in Iraq. I said there were no "weapons of mass destruction" found there. Which is the horrifying bogeyman that our government was trying to terrify us all about to justify their desire to invade and take over Iraq.



    Iraq's weapons of mass destruction was a hugely massive lie



    And second of all... Did you even read the article you cited??? It totally supports what I have been saying!

    From your cited article:

    "After the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Mr. Bush insisted that Mr. Hussein was hiding an active weapons of mass destruction program, in defiance of international will and at the world’s risk. United Nations inspectors said they could not find evidence for these claims.

    Then, during the long occupation, American troops began encountering old chemical munitions in hidden caches and roadside bombs. Typically 155-millimeter artillery shells or 122-millimeter rockets, they were remnants of an arms program Iraq had rushed into production in the 1980s during the Iran-Iraq war.

    All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them.

    In case after case, participants said, analysis of these warheads and shells reaffirmed intelligence failures. First, the American government did not find what it had been looking for at the war’s outset, then it failed to prepare its troops and medical corps for the aged weapons it did find."



    And you know what, od? Even if every chemical shell they found was in perfectly pristine and ready condition, they still wouldn't count as "weapons of mass destruction". And no one in the United States needed fear a single one of them. Owing to those shells' somewhat... insufficient range.

    So yeah, they found old, corroded, leaky chemical munitions that had been reduced to little more than, as I stated, toxic waste. Albeit quite toxic.

    Toxic waste is toxic, olde dude. of course if the troops got it on them or inhaled fumes, they'd get burned or horribly sick. But that didn't make that stuff "Weapons of Mass Destruction. That was all I have been saying.


    Calling what they found in Iraq "Weapons of Mass Destruction" would be like calling this a "lethal weapon":


  47. by islander on August 11, 2023 7:13 am

    Old dude, this is for you.

    Pre-War Claims:

    Senior members of the Bush administration made repeated claims that Iraq possessed chemical, biological and nuclear weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) and WMD programs, and was a grave and imminent threat to the security of the United States and the world.
     
    Facts:

    Following the invasion of Iraq in March 2003, many months of exhaustive investigations found no stockpiles of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons.  No evidence of active WMD programs was found.

    Iraq’s nuclear program ended in 1991 following the first Gulf War, and was never reconstituted.  Iraq destroyed its chemical weapons stockpile in 1991.  Its biological weapons were destroyed in 1991 and 1992.  Through 1998, U.N. weapons inspectors repeatedly checked suspected facilities, and had installed cameras to monitor activity at these sites. * 

    I’m sure you must remember what Colin Powell said before he died about the stain on his record. With regard to the false information he gave before the UN He said Iraq did indeed have an ongoing WMD program and had stockpiles of WMD but that was false. He didn’t, however, intentionally lie, he said he himself was mislead by the Bush administration and at the time he believed what they were telling him. He was an honorable man and I believe him.

    Of course they found remnants of old biological and chemical weapons and this was exactly what one would expect to find. But that's not why we invaded Iraq.

    Read the article you posted to see the kind of stuff they found.


    leadingtowar.com


  48. by Ponderer on August 11, 2023 7:19 am

    And I might also add that I believe that the response that troops injured by those toxic chemicals got from the military was appalling. They were treated like they were expendable and worthy of little if any attention.

    olde dude, I am sure I share your hostility towards the military over the way these and other veterans have been treated over the years. They'll spend over a million dollars per soldier to get them to the battlefield. No expense is spared. But afterwards, if they need more than a coffin and a respectful burial, the military resists spending a single dime more than they can keep from spending on them and their care and rehabilitation.

    I swear, I get so pissed off about that every time I see a commercial for veterans' charities on TV. Charities that have to beg and struggle to provide to military veterans what the military should have been providing all along.


  49. by oldedude on August 11, 2023 7:49 am
    In 2004, hundreds of chemical warheads were recovered from the desert close to the Iran–Iraq border. According to The Washington Post, the munitions "had been buried near the Iranian border, and then long forgotten, by Iraqi troops during their eight-year war with Iran". Officials did not consider the discovery as evidence of an ongoing weapons program that was believed to be in existence before the invasion began.[#1]

    The Iraqi government informed the United Nations in 2014 that insurgents affiliated with the Islamic State terror group had seized control of the Muthana State Establishment, including a chemical weapons depot northwest of Baghdad. The facility was partially destroyed and placed under the supervision of UNSCOM following the 1991 Gulf War. It housed some 2,500 sarin-filled rockets at the time of their departure in 1999. The U.N. said that the munitions were of "poor quality" and "would largely be degraded after years of storage under the conditions existing there."[2][3]


    2009 Declaration
    Iraq became a member state of the Chemical Weapons Convention in 2009, declaring "two bunkers with filled and unfilled chemical weapons munitions, some precursors, as well as five former chemical weapons production facilities" according to OPCW Director General Rogelio Pfirter.[4] No plans were announced at that time for the destruction of the material, although it was noted that the bunkers were damaged in the 2003 war and even inspection of the site must be carefully planned.

    The declaration contained no surprises, OPCW spokesman Michael Luhan indicated. The production facilities were "put out of commission" by airstrikes during the 1991 conflict, while United Nations personnel afterward secured the chemical munitions in the bunkers. Luhan stated at the time: "These are legacy weapons, remnants." He declined to discuss how many weapons were stored in the bunkers or what materials they contained. The weapons were not believed to be in a usable state.[4]

    The destruction of these remnants was completed in 2018.

    washingtonpost.com
    seattletimes.com
    globalsecurity.org
    nti.org


  50. by oldedude on August 11, 2023 7:59 am
    Just as an added story. My eldest son (the Marine) took a "fort" in the middle of nowhere. During taking the place apart and looking for weapons, explosives, gathering intel, they came across a bunker. They opened the doors and found a bunch of rockets, etc. The CBRNE (chemical specialists) guys went over, did a couple of quick tests, told everyone that had opened the doors or had been near to burn their uniforms and wash. They closed the doors and bulldozed dirt over them.

    Report: United States kept secret its chemical weapons finds in Iraq
    “In all, American troops secretly reported finding roughly 5,000 chemical warheads, shells or aviation bombs, according to interviews with dozens of participants, Iraqi and American officials, and heavily redacted intelligence documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

    “The United States had gone to war declaring it must destroy an active weapons of mass destruction program. Instead, American troops gradually found and ultimately suffered from the remnants of long-abandoned programs, built in close collaboration with the West,” the newspaper reported.

    It quoted a former Army sergeant who suffered mustard burns in 2007 and was reportedly denied hospital treatment.

    “I felt more like a guinea pig than a wounded soldier,” he told the Times.

    Pentagon spokesman Rear Adm. John Kirby on Wednesday addressed the allegations at a press briefing in Washington.

    When asked whether injured U.S. servicemembers were denied treatment, or told to keep quiet, he said he couldn’t speak to “what guidance or decisions their unit commanders or medical staff may have given them at the time.”

    He added: “I just don’t have that level of detail. This happened a long time ago and it was on an individual basis.”

    Kirby estimated that about 20 U.S. servicemembers were exposed to material from chemical munitions, from around the mid-2000s to 2010 or 2011.

    “The Secretary’s expectation is that servicemembers and their families are going to get the care and support that they need, and if they aren’t, he wants to make sure that leadership address that,” Kirby said about U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel.

    “But this is an issue for their chains of command to deal with, leadership at all levels to deal with. There’s no need for – and I don’t expect that there’s going to be – a Pentagon-level review of these particular cases,” Kirby said.

    “In case after case, participants said, analysis of these warheads and shells reaffirmed intelligence failures. First, the American government did not find what it had been looking for at the war’s outset, then it failed to prepare its troops and medical corps for the aged weapons it did find,” the Times reported.

    cnn.com


  51. by Ponderer on August 11, 2023 8:03 am

    Okay..............

    So... What point were you trying to make with all that stuff that in no way de-legitimizes anything I said...?

    Or were you just adding to and agreeing with what I said?


  52. by oldedude on August 11, 2023 8:18 am
    They were there. Period. End of Story.


  53. by Donna on August 11, 2023 8:22 am

    That's really weak, od.


  54. by Ponderer on August 11, 2023 8:26 am

    "They were there. Period. End of Story." -olde dude

    "Weapons of Mass Destruction" were not there!!! Triple exclamation mark. Saying they were was a lie to begin with.


  55. by Donna on August 11, 2023 8:38 am

    Confession: I was even duped by the WMD claim, not regarding Iraq's alleged nuclear program; I had read enough to know that it was scrapped in the early 90s - but by the claim about Iraq's chemical weapons. I had read that they were Saddam's favorite weapons, which he used extensively in the Iraq-Iran War, and I feared that he would use them on our soldiers.

    But inexplicably, he didn't use them. Later I read the probable reason why, which was the info Ponderer posted.


  56. by Donna on August 11, 2023 8:45 am

    So the U.S. military proceeded to effectively use them on its own troops by stupidly burning them along with assorted toxic garbage in open burn pits, which led to the poisoning, including subsequent deaths of numerous U.S. and allied soldiers. My cousin's son-in-law may have been one of those casualties.


  57. by oldedude on August 11, 2023 9:58 am
    I'm sorry about your family. It's really hard to tell people how much it hurts to get this "stuff." My heart goes out to his family and friends.

    This is longer than it needed to be, but if your semi interested, it'll tell you some more in-depth stuff I've looked up to see why I felt like crap for 25 years. They did't burn the biochem WMD (per se), they brought in the CBRNE folks that neutralized the separate parts. But the suits those folks wore, they did burn. In binary weapons, there are still WWII chemicals we are getting rid of that if mixed, are still 90% of the original lethality.

    On burning stuff, there were a lot of things other than paper, food scraps, etc. Things like computer parts (that put off lethal gas), ordinance boxes that have crap from the munitions and cosmoline (a really crappy grease they put parts in so they don't rust) in some cases. There's also a bunch of heavy metals that WILL kill you. I was found with excessively high numbers of lead, iron, sulfur, lithium, mercury, and a whole bunch of metals that are used in both aircraft fuel, and what was burned.

    These metals were 90% of my problem. The VA won't "treat" the causes, they only treat the symptoms. For different reasons, my wife and I went to a naturopathic doctor (the one that curt said should be illegal and are quacks). I got three infusions and I can actually walk again up to my barn (a couple hundred yards). I feel great. The hives I had all over my body are all but gone. The "Chelation" binds with metals and stays with them. They come out of your blood and into your digestive tract. Pretty cool. The drawback is insurance won't pay and it's expensive. I dropped most of my pain meds.


  58. by Donna on August 11, 2023 11:30 am

    I'm so happy to hear that the source of many of your health problems has been identified and that you're finally getting some relief, od. I'm a little familiar with chelation.

    Do you think the DoD will change its practices regarding burn pits?




  59. by oldedude on August 11, 2023 11:44 am
    I dunno, it's a thousand year old "thing" for sanitation mostly in the old days. We thought it was funny that we had to do our work on the helicopters (we had our own). When we did, we had to wear these huge, heavy-duty gloves when we were loading the machineguns. Then we took off the gloves and threw them away. With all the crap that was on them (apparently), they burned them in the pits. That made zero sense to us. But that's how it's done.

    A major issue is the stuff that is burned just so the locals don't get it. I don't see a change in the next war. There's no place to put the tons of refuse that (especially) a combined base (with two or more of the services there) has. They have all the parts for the aircraft, fuel for vehicles, aircraft, tracked vehicles, etcetcetc. There's just a lot of folks.

    I could see them forcing people deployed to wear gas masks. THAT would be awful. You can't breathe in them anyway, it's hot, sticky. the filters get wet and gunky. yuck...


  60. by Indy! on August 11, 2023 11:50 am

    Putin is just the U.S.'s "enemy" du jour. Like all the others, we tweaked him until he lashed out. It's the standard modus operandi we use to keep us in a perpetual war state. It makes money for the people at the top and keeps the people at the bottom in a state of accepting whatever crumbs they can scramble to get for themselves. Islanders "one step at a time" is the perfect example. There are no "steps" moving left - none. We are in a constant state of moving further right. The Ds have done absolutely nothing for us in 50 years - not... a... single... thing. Yet y'all are still saying "stick with the plan - it's working". What's the definition of insanity?


  61. by islander on August 11, 2023 4:42 pm

    Indy...You're beginning to worry me. At first I thought you were just a cynic but I know a lot of cynics who are also cranks. I hope you aren't a crank as well. You know what a crank is don't you? That's someone who whines and complains about everything and everyone while masturbating at the same time.

    That's not you...Is it? 😟


  62. by Indy! on August 11, 2023 5:34 pm

    That's not me, Islander. But if it were? It would be better than your chronic masturbation to Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer.


  63. by islander on August 12, 2023 7:45 am

    LoL!! Indy you failed on that one. You've never heard me mention anything about either one of them here or anywhere else !! 🤣


  64. by Donna on August 12, 2023 9:28 am

    od - Yeah, I don't see that ever changing either. We will continue to poison ourselves out of "necessity", whether it happens via burn pits or "forever chemicals" like microplastics.

    Humanity will continue to destroy itself as long as we continue to identify ourselves as members of races, religions, ideologies, and nations as opposed to members of the human race.


  65. by Indy! on August 14, 2023 1:17 am

    I don’t need to hear you pimping them by name, Islander. It’s obvious from your constant regurgitation of the DNC agenda. You’re a useful idiot for the Ds. Can’t think for yourself. Can’t do anything except get your D talking points and repeat them. Not an original thought in anything you say - the same “hurry up and wait” we’ve been hearing since Clinton invented triangulation which is nothing more than morphing the Ds into the Rs. If you ever were progressive, you morphed right along with them. Just like Curt, Donna and Pondy.


  66. by HatetheSwamp on August 14, 2023 3:43 am

    I don’t need to hear you pimping them by name, Islander. It’s obvious from your constant regurgitation of the DNC agenda. You’re a useful idiot for the Ds. Can’t think for yourself.

    Bang on, Indy.

    But, I think it's worse than that...with isle, especially.

    This thinking that the electric blue shade of the uniparty is good and the crimson is puuuuure evil is exactly like believing WWE is real.

    Shhhhhhh. Don't tell isle. It'll ruin him.


  67. by islander on August 14, 2023 6:22 am

    LoL !!!

    "Not an original thought in anything you say" ~ Indy

    That's definitely not an original thought from you ! 🤓

    You're just copying Hate !! 🤣

    Here's your chance! Give is one of your original thoughts ! 🍻


  68. by HatetheSwamp on August 14, 2023 6:35 am

    As I say, the song is blue collar antiSwamp...and it characterizes our hate for everything we think you love. And, you, in particular, probably do.


  69. by Indy! on August 14, 2023 11:01 am

    Islander trying to impress his true love...



  70. by HatetheSwamp on August 14, 2023 11:05 am

    Good'ne, Indy!


  71. by islander on August 14, 2023 1:52 pm

    You thought you wouldn't get caught...Wait till Putin finds out who you've been cheating on him with !


  72. by Indy! on August 15, 2023 2:27 am

    At least Putin is an honest broker.


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