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Government selectors, pages, etc.
Democrats, Republicans Reached A Tentative Debt Ceiling Agreement
By HatetheSwamp
May 27, 2023 6:07 pm
Category: Government

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An agreement between Republicans and Democrats has been reached regarding the looming debt ceiling crisis.

According to sources, President Joe Biden and House Speaker Republican Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif) reached a tentative deal to raise the federal government's $31.4 trillion debt ceiling, ending months-long discussions.

Details were not entirely clear, however, negotiators reportedly agreed to cap non-defense discretionary spending at 2023 levels for two years, in exchange for a debt ceiling increase over a similar period.


Well see...


Cited and related links:

  1. townhall.com

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Comments on "Democrats, Republicans Reached A Tentative Debt Ceiling Agreement":

  1. by oldedude on May 28, 2023 5:27 am
    My bet. This will fall through (at least once) until the last minute. The dims now think they have an upper hand. McCarthy better not cave.


  2. by Ponderer on May 28, 2023 8:53 am

    It kind of looks like the Democrats will be the only ones to get everything that they wanted if the debt ceiling is raised.

    When this all started, all the Democrats wanted was for the debt ceiling to be raised. As it always is. As it always has been. As it was three times without any complaints from the peanut gallery when Trump was in office as he and his MAGA Republican co-pirates were cavalierly raising the debt by 25% or so.

    It was the MAGA Republicans who put a gun to the debt ceiling's head and demanded treasure. Not the Democrats. They just don't want the economy and our country's entire standing in the world destroyed for no reason whatsoever.


    I wish to God that the modern GOP could govern like anything other than a conglomerate of Mafia bosses. They've obviously given up on the democratic system. As their self-serving policies are soundly distasteful to a good sized majority of the country's population, they can't really hope anymore to win office by being elected fair and square. And lying and bullshitting their most gullible constituents into voting against their own interest can only take them so far.

    So they gerrymander. Use targeted repression of voting rights. And they turn to the courts in an attempt to jury-rig that system to get what they want. And when that doesn't work, they'll keep trying any underhanded means they can find. Until finally, they'll just outright attempt a coup by any and every way they see at their disposal. We have watched this actually happen.

    So they are forced to turn to other options. Lying. Misrepresenting. Propaganda. Terrorism. Anarchy. Nihilism. Whatever works for them. And as they have proven over and over again, they are not above turning to strong arm Mafia-like tactics in order to maintain their control.

    It is in no way surprising that a political party full of people who have abandoned all sense of duty towards the offices that they were elected to, has reached the sociopathic level of existential desperation necessary to actually threaten to destroy our entire economy and standing in the world in order to force poor people on welfare work for any aid that they receive.


    Talk about being desperate for a win.



  3. by oldedude on May 28, 2023 10:26 pm
    disparate or desperate? for a whin(n)

    Seems both appear the same but are different.... says the Cheshire cat


  4. by oldedude on May 29, 2023 6:02 pm
    There's already rumblings within the GOP about the bill. McCarthy may not be able to pass it.


  5. by Ponderer on May 29, 2023 7:46 pm

    Well if it turns out they can't pass a bill, Biden should go all Fourteenth Amendment on their MAGA asses and raise the debt ceiling. He'll have given them every opportunity up to that point to raise it themselves.


  6. by oldedude on May 31, 2023 3:03 am
    Just wondering. Could you explain how the 14th Amendment is relevant in this case? This has to do with counting prior slaves at the end of the civil war. I don't see any reference there at all about national debt.

    Please explain and cite.


  7. by HatetheSwamp on May 31, 2023 3:42 am

    OD,

    This is where po's status as a law school professor and constitutional scholar helps us all. I know that progressive SwampMedia wackos like Joy Reade and the HuffPo crowd...and even the brilliant Karine Jean-Pierre, mentioned it, I think.

    I've been hoping that it'd come down to that to see what the Supreme Court would do with it. This gang ain't big on turning the President into a dictator:

    The Tenth Amendment + "of the people, by the people and for the people" = the real, as po'd say, EFFIN America!

    Baha baha bahahahahahahahahahaha baha!


  8. by Curt_Anderson on May 31, 2023 8:28 am
    OD,
    I donít personally think that invoking the 14th amendment to resolve the debt/extortion crisis is a good idea, but here is the relevant language that supporters cite.

    ďSection 4
    The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.Ē

    By the way, HtS, you donít have to be a lawyer or a constitutional scholar to google the text of the constitution or of a constitutional amendment.
    constitution.congress.gov


  9. by oldedude on May 31, 2023 8:49 am
    I think you and I agree, but is there a rebellion going on I don't know about?
    "Hey Rocky! watch me pull a rebellion out of my arse!" (Thanks to Mr Bullwinkle).

    Dangerous precedence. Most of the lawyers even on the left are not convinced it will float through any court. That's why I was wondering for the sake of this site and if anyone knew how it was going to be applied.

    Thanks though. I was just wondering how they got this fantasy started. The dangerous thing is if they pull this by an EO, it's going to be at least months before it's settled.


  10. by HatetheSwamp on May 31, 2023 12:13 pm

    By the way, HtS, you donít have to be a lawyer or a constitutional scholar to google the text of the constitution or of a constitution.

    Perhaps. But, you didn't Google the part that says the President can do that on his/her own authority. In fact, it's a matter of LAW. Congress writes laws.


  11. by Curt_Anderson on May 31, 2023 12:31 pm
    "Perhaps. But, you didn't Google the part that says the President can do that on his/her own authority. In fact, it's a matter of LAW. Congress writes laws." ---HtS

    An executive order by the president or a governor has the force of law. Executive orders do not require any action by the Congress or state legislature to take effect, and the legislature cannot overturn it.

    The U.S. Supreme Court has held that all executive orders from the president of the United States must be supported by the Constitution, whether from a clause granting specific power, or by Congress delegating such to the executive branch.

    It is very likely that had Biden invoked the 14th Amendment, it would face challenges in court(s). At least there is a plausible constitutional argument to be made. The reason I don't think it's a good idea is because a protracted courtroom battle probably wouldn't stop our US credit rating from being downgraded. There are political downsides for Biden too.


  12. by HatetheSwamp on May 31, 2023 12:38 pm

    An executive order by the president or a governor has the force of law.

    Bullcr@p.

    Only if the Executive Branch possesses authority under Article 2.

    I'm not po, but I think all money stuff has to come from Congress. Please correct me, if you can, if I'm wrong.


  13. by Curt_Anderson on May 31, 2023 12:48 pm
    A president doesn't have to be legally right in issuing an executive order. The EO may or may not be overturned in the Supreme Court. There have been EOs that were on more constitutional shaky ground than invoking the 14th Amendment. Laurence Tribe says requiring president to pay U.S. debts supersedes debt-limit law.
    news.harvard.edu
    reuters.com


  14. by HatetheSwamp on May 31, 2023 1:59 pm

    President Joe Biden on Sunday said he believes he has the legal right to invoke the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution to raise the federal government's $31.4 trillion debt ceiling but does not have the time to do so.

    Curt, As you know, Biden also believes that he used to drive truck.

    If it had come to it, if Clouseau issued your Executive Order, I imagine that he'd have been challenged in Court.



  15. by oldedude on May 31, 2023 6:53 pm
    A president doesn't have to be legally right in issuing an executive order. The EO may or may not be overturned in the Supreme Court. There have been EOs that were on more constitutional shaky ground than invoking the 14th Amendment. Laurence Tribe says requiring president to pay U.S. debts supersedes debt-limit law.

    Lead and curt- that was my "assumption" regarding pedojoe and the EO. At the minimum, this is going to take months if it runs through at the speed of light. All this time, the decision and money will be put on hold. So we don't have a budget until then.


  16. by Ponderer on May 31, 2023 7:26 pm

    Republicans should be so feckless and demented.



  17. by Curt_Anderson on May 31, 2023 7:43 pm
    Ponderer,
    I love that cartoon!


  18. by HatetheSwamp on June 1, 2023 3:33 am

    The cartoon is hilarious!!!!!!


  19. by Ponderer on June 1, 2023 6:50 am

    I hadda feeling it would go over well here.

    It's funny 'cuz it's true.

    For all the complaints and insults lobbed at him, Biden has actually been doing a fine job of being president. He's not perfect. No president ever is. He's even doing some things that I don't like. But on the whole, he's proving that experience and dedication to duty are worth far more than ignorant, empty-handed bravado and Mafia-style bully tactics when it comes to actual governing.

    And I have to say also that McCarthy even gained a few points in my book from this. He's gonna have a few in his cadre who will want his head (and they may even get it), but even they will get plenty out of this to make hay with. Extremely mendacious hay, but they'll make the best of it nonetheless as they always do with a handful of failure.

    But the important thing that was accomplished here is that The MAGA Republicans were stopped from destroying the economic stability of this country and the world. Whew!


  20. by HatetheSwamp on June 1, 2023 7:11 am

    po,

    Being as the GOP is the home of openness, inclusion and acceptance, diversity , tolerance...and EFFIN FREETHINKING, it'll be interesting to see if the Freedom Caucus...i.e., for you, that's the Christian Theocrat Caucus...will try to 86 McCarthy as House Speaker. They all voted against the bill. And, they took others with them.



  21. by Ponderer on June 1, 2023 7:20 am

    "Being as the GOP is the home of openness, inclusion and acceptance, diversity , tolerance...and EFFIN FREETHINKING, " -Hate

    Well, being as you are completely and entirely loopy, nothing you says holds much gravitas or adds anything worth considering in any conversations of the goings-on in the real world.


  22. by Ponderer on June 1, 2023 7:26 am

    But as I said, McCarthy will probably pay dearly for doing the right thing.

    The MAGA Republican party rarely misses a chance to cut down any of its members who dare put duty to the country before party.


  23. by HatetheSwamp on June 1, 2023 7:34 am

    "The MAGA Republican party rarely misses a chance to cut down any of its members who dare put duty to the country before party."

    Don't restrict it to the MAGAs. pb pointed out when the GOP clinched the House that they don't rule well. The fact that McCarthy got this done defies a century of GOP history.


  24. by Donna on June 1, 2023 7:55 am

    Lawrence O'Donnell had a brilliant take on the debt deal.

    Most Dems want someone else to run for prez in '24, but there's no denying that Biden is a brilliant politician, especially being that he has dementia, or so some say.









    m.youtube.com


  25. by Ponderer on June 1, 2023 8:10 am

    "The fact that McCarthy got this done defies a century of GOP history." -Hate

    Yeah. I can just see him in the closed door negotiations telling Biden what's going to happen. 🙄

    McCarthy let this happen. That was his big accomplishment here. That was how he managed to do the right thing. To think that Biden wasn't the one in complete control at the end of this is shear lunacy. Biden was the one who ended up with all the chips on the table, but McCarthy got enough to pretend like he was the one who won. And you're swallowing McCarthy's and the MAGA Republican party's bullshit about it. As you are wont to do.


  26. by Ponderer on June 1, 2023 8:13 am

    "pb pointed out when the GOP clinched the House that they don't rule well." -Hate

    Boy Bill. You really went out on a limb with that I tell ya what.


  27. by HatetheSwamp on June 1, 2023 8:22 am

    Most Dems want someone else to run for prez in '24, but there's no denying that Biden is a brilliant politician,...

    Oh, yes there is. This is a real-life case of bumbling Clouseau happening on success. Baha.


  28. by HatetheSwamp on June 1, 2023 8:24 am

    "Boy Bill. You really went out on a limb with that I tell ya what."

    Thing is, po, you got it wrong. You blamed only the MAGAs.


  29. by Donna on June 1, 2023 9:13 am

    I get the sense that Kevin McCarthy admires President Biden.


  30. by Ponderer on June 1, 2023 9:16 am

    Oh...? What did I get wrong, Bill?




    (This is where he makes up some flaming bullshit by mischaracterizing something that I said in order to make himself appear to be correct. This oughtta be good...)


  31. by HatetheSwamp on June 1, 2023 9:35 am

    po,

    It's your MAGA hate.


  32. by HatetheSwamp on June 1, 2023 9:37 am

    Donna,

    I'm not a McCarthy fan but I do believe that he's a rarity in the DC Swamp, a man of grace.


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