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Anonymous comments regarding the Presidential Candidate Selector and the election
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Politics selectors, pages, etc.
Teri Kanefield Nails it Again 👍
By islander
March 26, 2023 7:17 am
Category: Politics

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It’s not about delay. It’s about obstruction and destruction.

"Please excuse me while I have a mini-rant.

Occasionally mainstream and social media commentators settle on a theory that projects the speakers’ own reasoning onto Trump and his supporters. For example, at one time, the going theory was that Lindsay Graham was kissing Trump’s ring because Trump was blackmailing him. It was common for people to ask, “What does Trump have on him?”

At the time, I insisted he was not being blackmailed: Lindsay Graham was kissing Trump’s ring because Trump is a reactionary and Graham is a reactionary, and Graham likes what Trump stands for.

People argued: “But remember how Lindsay Graham was initially opposed to Trump, then he went golfing with Trump and changed his mind?” What could have caused him to change his mind, people wondered, other than blackmail?

The whole blackmail theory gave Graham too much credit. People assumed that without the blackmail Graham would have done the right thing and denounced Trump. The blackmail theorists were projecting their own values onto Trump.

What happened was simpler: Initially, Lindsay Graham thought Trump would lose. He didn’t think the country would elect an avowed white supremacist. The Republicans were accustomed to using dog whistles and Trump was coming right out with racist remarks. When Trump persuaded Graham that he could win, Graham fell in line. Once Trump assumed office, Graham became a devoted follower because that’s what people with authoritarian personalities do. They worship their leaders.

The latest theory is that the goal of Trump’s shenanigans with these criminal probes is to delay. To take a few recent examples, a well-known ethics lawyer who I highly respect, said, “Trump has had remarkable success with delay and evasion tactics.” Another of my faves, a legal commentator, said, “Judges can see through Trump’s delay game.”

Here is the Oxford Dictionary‘s definition of delay:

To make something late or slow. The train was delayed. To postpone or defer.

Here is the definition of obstruction:

A block; to be in the way or get in the way of, to prevent or hinder.

The goal of delay is to postpone the train. The goal of obstruction is to derail the train. I maintain that Trump is not trying to delay. He is trying to derail.

Example: Trump’s Special Master lawsuit

Trump repeatedly refused to turn over government records he had taken from the White House even after a criminal probe began. After the government searched his premises and seized the government documents, he filed his lawsuit demanding a special master to force the government to give the documents back to him.

He argued that he had the right to possess those documents. He argued that they were his personal property. He argued that at any time, he could declassify top secret documents and convert them to his own personal property, therefore, the government had no right to search his premises and seize the documents.

Had he succeeded, the government would have had to return the documents to Trump and would not have been able to charge him with a crime.

He lost. Within a few weeks, court allowed the DOJ to continue its investigation into the classified documents, and within two months, the appellate court bounced the entire case out of court.

The chorus on social media: “His delay tactic worked! He managed a delay!”

My theory: He thought he would win. He thought he had the right to take and keep the documents, and that the government had no authority to seize the documents or prosecute him for taking them. He thought he could torpedo the entire investigation.

Me: “His attempt to obstruct the investigation failed.”

But Teri! Why does it matter whether we say ‘delay’ or ‘obstruct’?"

...To continue click the citation link


Cited and related links:

  1. terikanefield.com

Comments Start Below


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Comments on "Teri Kanefield Nails it Again 👍":

  1. by HatetheSwamp on March 26, 2023 7:32 am

    Duh. Graham is a politician. From South Carolina...representing the opinions of his constituents. Big scandal there, eh?

    Now, moving on the near 50 Biden Top Secret Classified Documents scandal, ain't...

    Bahahahahahahahahahaha!


  2. by islander on March 26, 2023 8:06 am

    Most of the tactics Internet Trolls use come right out of the KGB manual of disinformation...You'll see them used here quite frequently. First we can discuss "whataboutism".

    Hate wrote:Now, moving on the near 50 Biden Top Secret Classified Documents scandal, ain't... What about them?

    "The manual described the method known as whataboutism, which was frequently used in Soviet Russia. If your opponent accuses you of something, you respond by saying, “But what about—,” and then name something the opponent had done. A famous example was:

      Western diplomat: Soviet labor camps are an abomination and human rights disaster.
               
    Stalin: What about lynchings in the American South?
               
    In fact, a joke that circulated in Russia went like this: An American calls a Soviet radio station and asks, “Can an ordinary citizen afford to buy a car?” The radio station host says, What about lynchings in the American South?”

    Whataboutism short-circuits a discussion, deflects blame, and throws listeners off balance.*

    *Teri Kanefield


  3. by HatetheSwamp on March 26, 2023 8:13 am

    As you know, pb thinks Trump is despicable. He supports Ron DeSantis for President. He most certainly ain't defending Trump. But, there is that little thing about Joe beginning to hoard Top Secret Classified Documents nearly 50 decades ago.

    Trump is despicable. "That feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap's" a corrupt "feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap."

    isle. Wipe the egg off your face.

    Bahahahahahahahahahaha, ahhhhhhhhhhh.


  4. by islander on March 26, 2023 8:45 am

    Our local troll writes:
”As you know, pb thinks Trump is despicable. He supports Ron DeSantis for President. He most certainly ain't defending Trump. But, there is that little thing about Joe beginning to hoard Top Secret Classified Documents nearly 50 decades ago.
    Trump is despicable. "That feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap's" a corrupt "feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap."
    isle. Wipe the egg off your face.
    Bahahahahahahahahahaha, ahhhhhhhhhhh.”


    This example is sometimes called Noise or Muddying the Waters (again from the KGB manual). It has nothing to do with the topic being discussed

    The goal is simply the disruption of the opponent’s message.

    One of the interesting things about this board is that we can all actually witness these tactics as they are being used and learn how to quickly spot them !! 👍




  5. by HatetheSwamp on March 26, 2023 9:41 am

    Splain to me what I'm disrupting. Trump is despicable. Graham's a slimy politician.


    Oh,...

    And,...

    ...a little equity in the treatment of members of both parties'd be a good thing.

    I guess that's where I sinned.


  6. by oldedude on March 26, 2023 9:58 am
    So I read what you posted. I wasn't in the least bit moved. She has TDS, you have TDS. You're going to agree with her. What I read, as usually from muffy, was a lot of hyperbole, zero facts. If she used "facts" please tell us where she got them. I'm doubtful she cites anything she writes.

    This reminds me a lot of adam shiftless. "We have undisputed facts Trump has done [this and such." None of that came about. Thusly, he's not on a committee that he's exposed to classified documents. Now I'm doubtful muffy has a clearance of any sort, but it's a good comparison. Even if she doesn't give citations, but others do, I'm game.


  7. by HatetheSwamp on March 26, 2023 10:11 am

    So I read what you posted. I wasn't in the least bit moved. She has TDS, you have TDS. You're going to agree with her.

    No duh. Subjectivity is truth and isle's subjectivity is as powerful as a neutron bomb.


  8. by islander on March 26, 2023 12:04 pm

    When you read a post by an intelligent and well informed person like Teri, what I’ve found to be virtually always the case is that the comments by the readers are also intelligent and informative.

    I found this comment from today to accurately describe my own thoughts when I am reading posts written by Teri, Heather cox Richardson and Marcy Wheeler etc. 


    By Kirk Evans
    March 26, 2023 at 9:00 am

    ”This post is one I’d like to frame and put on the wall. Imprecise words reflect imprecise, often erroneous thinking, and I so cherish getting schooled in this by you and other fine thinkers (hello Joyce Vance and Heather Cox Richardson).

    As a software engineer, one of the things all engineers struggle with is coming up with good names for the things we create – names of variables, names of this or that software artifact. As you work a software problem, and as your understanding of the problem goes from murky to clear, it’s typical, and a welcome sign that your names get clearer, more succinct, and precise, because your thinking has gotten clearer. It’s all about creating something that’s as self-documenting as it can be, so others can quickly grasp what’s going on and carry the ball, when that time comes.

    As an occasional writer, I struggle with precision and flow, and am thrilled when I can hit all the notes a passage is supposed to make, right on the mark, and it flows like water. It finally sings.

    I don’t know how you can train your mind to think more precisely, apart from writing out your thoughts and working with them, where you can see them in front of you (not all that different from what a software engineer does in computer code). Would love to take a college-level course in “Fine Thinking”. Law school is probably a good venue for this.

    Very intrigued and hopeful about the error Trump is making, projecting his experience with civil suits onto the criminal world. Very hopeful about recent developments, that the top people, Meadows et al., can no longer evade testifying.

    Given your writing background, you probably present better in the written world, instead of in a forum requiring extemporaneous speech, such as pod-casting, or a spot on MSNBC (or similar). But the quality of what you’re saying here is beyond most of what’s on TV, and needs to be heard (not just read).



  9. by Curt_Anderson on March 26, 2023 1:09 pm
    I just saw Barbara Res interviewed on CNN. She is a former Trump organization, vice president. She has known Donald Trump for decades, and knows his moves. The interviewer CNN’s Fredrika Winfield ask why some politicians seem to be afraid of Trump, and certainly afraid to cross him. Barbara Res said that Trump will use some dirt that he has on somebody and threatens to spill it publicly. She said she would not be surprised if Trump maintained a dossier on politicians in which he can find something scandalous to say about them. And probably the scandal don’t even need to be real scandals, just something questionable. The stories and photos of DeSantis partying with high school students is an example.


  10. by islander on March 26, 2023 1:47 pm

    Curt,



    That seems quite plausible to me but I also think that right now, some of those politicians are hedging their bets and waiting a little longer to see what is going to happen with Trump’s legal problems and possible indictments before they turn on him. 



    It’s still probably fresh in a lot their minds just like it is in most of ours how Trump was able to pull off the seemingly impossible 3 years ago, and they don’t want to be on the wrong side if he can do it again. And I think many of them believe they need the support of Trump’s base if they want to be re-elected again.

    They are caught between a rock and a hard place.

    What do you think of Teri's question of Trump wanting to delay, or derail the whole system?


  11. by Curt_Anderson on March 26, 2023 2:09 pm
    Islander,
    IMHO delay, obstruct and derail are on a continuum.

    Trump's first response is to delay when he's faced with lawsuits and other legal challenges. Most of us don't have the money to hire lawyers willing to filing delaying motions. Trump of course does.

    When he held office, Trump obviously used every trick he could to obstruct justice. Often that entailed misusing Bill Barr and other lawyers in and around the administration to put up roadblocks. Fortunately, he wasn't successful on January 6th.

    Trump's latest effort to derail is an indirect one and spits in the face of the concept that "no one is above the law". "A trio of House Republican committee chairs say the House of Representatives could soon take up legislation to strip state and local prosecutors of the authority to prosecute former presidents in response to Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s potential indictment of former president Donald Trump."

    I would add that in addition to those three tactics of delay, obstruct and derail, Trump's playbook includes deny, distract and discredit. The House Republicans are willing accomplices Trump's denying, distracting and discrediting. Jennifer Rubin of the Washington Post as a good opinion piece about that today. She begins, "the worst-kept secret in Washington is that Democrats could not be more delighted with the inept, unhinged and entirely unproductive hearings that House Republicans insist on conducting in search of pay dirt on Democrats."
    finance.yahoo.com
    washingtonpost.com


  12. by oldedude on March 26, 2023 3:08 pm
    Isle-"When you read a post by an intelligent and well informed person like Adolf, what I’ve found to be virtually always the case is that the comments by the readers are also intelligent and informative."


  13. by islander on March 27, 2023 5:54 am

    ”I would add that in addition to those three tactics of delay, obstruct and derail, Trump's playbook includes deny, distract and discredit. The House Republicans are willing accomplices Trump's denying, distracting and discrediting.” ~ Curt

    

I wholeheartedly agree!

    Legal delay is the tactic that can and quite often is successfully used by the haves against the have nots. From what I have read Trump used it quite regularly in his “business” dealings. He has been and is still attempting to use it to use it as a tactic to protect himself from being held accountable for his crimes. However this time it’s not working quite so well for him, so he has simply moved to the next stage in which he is trying to blatantly obstruct justice. This is not working very well for him either. 

Trump has, I believe, now reached the point where he will try to destroy our whole system if that’s what it takes. Again, this time the bully has taken on an opponent bigger and stronger than himself.

    I also agree with Jennifer Rubin, the worst-kept secret in Washington is that Democrats could not be more delighted with the inept, unhinged and entirely unproductive hearings that House Republicans insist on conducting in search of pay dirt on Democrats." 👍

    One of the reasons I enjoy reading, Heather, Teri Kanefield, and Marcy Wheeler’s - Empty Wheel* etc. is that for me they are like listening to a real meteorologist discussing the forecast rather than a TV celebrity 'weatherman' or the sensationalized media reports of a “Major Winter Storm” bearing down the Northeast Lol !!

    * Click on Marcy’s link:
    emptywheel.net


  14. by HatetheSwamp on March 27, 2023 5:57 am

    One of the reasons I enjoy reading, Heather, Teri Kanefield, and Marcy Wheeler’s - Empty Wheel* etc.

    The Fellowship of the Deranged

    Bahahahahahahahahahaha, ahhhhhhhhhhh.


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