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Okay, All You Right Wing Geniuses... Let's Hear Your Theories As to What Trump Had Planned For All the Top Secret Documents He Stole...

By Ponderer
August 17, 2022 1:59 pm
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This ought to be good.

Please tell us what in the name of Creation Trump could have possibly needed to steal those documents and then lie about it all for.

I think it's blatantly obvious what the millions of reasons were. All of them were dollars. And I had no problem coming up with that obvious answer.

But hey! Let's hear from the experts! You all know Cheeto Benito far better than we do apparently. What do YOU believe his reasons were for stealing classified documents that he had no rational, logical, or legal business he had for committing document theft.....

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Comments on "Okay, All You Right Wing Geniuses... Let's Hear Your Theories As to What Trump Had Planned For All the Top Secret Documents He Stole...":

  1. by HatetheSwamp on August 17, 2022 2:00 pm

    The Trump Presidential Library?


  2. by Ponderer on August 17, 2022 2:11 pm

    Wow.

    I certainly didn't expect an answer that was that stupid.

    So you actually think that everything in a presidential library is there because a former president stole it so they could put it there? There are totally above board, legal ways of putting things in a presidential library. And stealing them and then refusing the National Archive requests for them and then hiding them until a totally legal FBI warrant liberates them from his felonious tiny hands ain't one of them.

    And geez, the LAST thing Trump wanted to ever happen to those documents was for them to be available to the public.


  3. by HatetheSwamp on August 17, 2022 2:16 pm

    So you actually think that everything in a presidential library is there because a former president stole it so they could put it there?

    Bahahahahahahahahahaha, po.

    There you go again being the first person to join a lynch mob.

    Despite your certainty on January 7, Trump has even been CHARGED with leading that insurrection.

    Hold your horses, there, po.


  4. by Ponderer on August 17, 2022 2:21 pm

    I'm used to your obfuscation when you're cornered. But it's usually a bit more coherent.

    You're the one whose horses need desperate corralling there, Bucko.

    Be patient. The indictments are gonna be like a tidal wave when they come. We're already getting tastes of things to come...


  5. by HatetheSwamp on August 17, 2022 2:26 pm

    po,

    I'm an American who cherishes due process.

    pb has not written one word in all of this defending Trump. pb despises Trump but pb doesn't prejudge.


  6. by Ponderer on August 17, 2022 2:46 pm

    "I'm an American who cherishes due process." -Hate


    And yet here you are, doing everything in your power to disparage and overwrite it. There is no legitimate, reality-based case to be made that due process was not religiously adhered to in this case. But that won't stop you from flogging any pig-ignorant bullshit you and your "sources" can pull out of your collective asses.

    You're happy to parrot the fictional nonsense being spewed on Fox and your other right wing temples to Machiavelli to arrive at the position you're taking. You don't give a schit how wrong their conspiracy theories and misrepresentations of the law are in their flailing, desperate attempts to deny, excuse, and obfuscate the legally and politically fatal reality of what Trump has done. You don't care what they constructed out of bullshit. It's not like you're ever gonna fact chek Fox! They gave you something and you're gonna run with it, by golly. You're just gonna wave nonsensically asinine accusations you have no idea of how wrong they are in everyone's faces like they actually have even a tiny connection to reality or the actual law.

    You stupid, gullible chump.


  7. by Curt_Anderson on August 17, 2022 2:55 pm
    Suggesting that it is for Presidential library is a particularly ridiculous idea. There are two places that the sort of items that Trump absconded with can legally be: back in the White House or within a legitimate Presidential library. Former presidents are not allowed to take stuff home with them.


  8. by HatetheSwamp on August 17, 2022 3:09 pm

    Yeah, Curt, like their own passports and personal, private legal documents...and the odd cocktail napkin.


  9. by islander on August 17, 2022 3:35 pm

    I'll bet we'll all know why he took those documents home with him in the coming months. 😎


  10. by HatetheSwamp on August 17, 2022 3:44 pm

    I hope you're right and it's puuuuuuure evil, exactly as you dream it.


  11. by oldedude on August 17, 2022 4:03 pm
    First, I've been arguing the way I would for anyone that had this happen to them. Including obomber or cliton. I despise them both, but no American should support a failure of adhering to the constitution.

    My bet is nothing about those supposed "thousands of classified documents" everyone talks about as if they were facts. I think it boils down to one document. The FISA warrant for CROSSFIRE HURRICANE and the preceding affidavit. If he has that, his fight is completely over. He sits back with a federal judge (he and the other dims get to pick) and skewer that entire process and let them squeal like a stuck little girl. It would be better than Game of Thrones. And much bloodier. You could expect about 50 suicides, so their "names" are still "intact." People that violated their oaths so bad they can't imagine getting tried over the crimes.

    The average agent? Not touched except to know not to do the same "stuff" they did. Don't lie. Don't cheat. Don't use your political "feelings" as any reason to do a case.


  12. by HatetheSwamp on August 17, 2022 4:40 pm

    My bet is nothing about those supposed "thousands of classified documents" everyone talks about as if they were facts.

    C'mon, OD, gimme a break. Let po join that lynch mob.


  13. by Curt_Anderson on August 17, 2022 5:20 pm
    Trump complaining that the FBI took his passports along with the stolen items is like a bank robber who was caught by the police complaining they also took his duffel bag.

    Also I wonder what prompted him to notice that his passport was missing. It seems like he was thinking "dang, I'm in a tight spot...where's my passport?"


  14. by oldedude on August 17, 2022 7:08 pm
    Curt-
    Don't know. But I am willing to bet the lawyers saw it and brought it up to him.

    I'm a little stunned and amused that none of the sheep understand the "dance" of bureaucracy. Trumps legal team is setting up to attack the warrant. There are holes in the subpoena and the warrant, which I've already talked about. If the actual reason for the warrant was the National Achieves issue, they got lots of 'splainin' to do.

    Trump made a big deal about the Passports. Why? because when his lawyers go to court, DOJ/ FBI will be accused of just sweeping papers into a box just to see what they get. That is called a fishing warrant and is illegal. You have to have a crime to get the warrant. When the FBI was asked about the Passports, they immediately denied they had them and pointed to DOJ. So they handed up their bosses very overtly. Trump is in this dance also. Why didn't he say he had the warrant? because he needed to check in with the lawyers and see what a good time was/ is. They wanted to make it seem like no one got a warrant first, to support their bad warrant theory. And some people still believe the warrant doesn't exist. But there are also beliebers that accept whatever DOJ and FBI tells them (for the first time in their lives) only when it suits them.


  15. by Donna on August 17, 2022 8:46 pm
    "Trump made a big deal about the Passports. Why? because when his lawyers go to court, DOJ/ FBI will be accused of just sweeping papers into a box just to see what they get."

    Yes, it can't possibly be that the DoJ considers Trump a flight risk. The truth always has to be a conspiracy theory.


  16. by Donna on August 17, 2022 9:03 pm
    My bad. I didn't know that they returned the passports. I haven't been keeping up on this very closely the past couple of days. I've been busy with other things. But that's no excuse. Mea culpa.

    Notice what I did there, Hts? I didn't deflect, change the subject or run away from my mistake. I was able to admit that I was 100% wrong, and my ego is still intact. Imagine that!

    It can be gone, Hts. I highly recommend it.





  17. by Curt_Anderson on August 17, 2022 9:13 pm
    "Yes, it can't possibly be that the DoJ considers Trump a flight risk. The truth always has to be a conspiracy theory." --- Donna

    Donna,
    I still think you were right in an Occam's Razor sort of way. The DOJ (or at least the FBI agents) was concerned that Trump was a flight risk. Then it was, what were we thinking? We want him to flee!


  18. by Donna on August 17, 2022 9:17 pm
    LOL! I remember your other post on that. We can dream, I guess.


  19. by oldedude on August 18, 2022 10:09 am
    Donna- ""Yes, it can't possibly be that the DoJ considers Trump a flight risk. The truth always has to be a conspiracy theory." --- Donna"

    I said on my first post of this (that you chose not to read), that I would consider him a flight risk also. He has the means to leave, ties to the community I'm not sure about because of the wealth, so I would absolutely have the judge to consider him a flight risk. That said, it's not up to DOJ, FBI, or barney fife. They don't have the power to seize the passports. The judge does.

    I think it's a little sick that you're about "sides." It's no secret that I don't trust the leadership in the DOJ/ FBI, and the IC (the ones that constructed CROSSFIRE HURRICANE). The same people (minus 2) that lied to the FISA are the people involved with this case. I don't think that's a coincidence and have deep reservations about the warrant.

    AND AGAIN. I don't think the Passports are a huge issue other than to show their lack of organization on their part.



  20. by Donna on August 18, 2022 3:55 pm
    It's not that I "chose" not to read your post, od. I don't read everything that's posted simply because I have a life outside of this forum. I don't want to spend all day here. I still work p/t, I have errands to run, and I have other interests. I watch a lot of baseball.


  21. by oldedude on August 18, 2022 6:25 pm
    I posted it three times. EOC.


  22. by Donna on August 18, 2022 11:47 pm
    I guess I missed it three times or glossed over what you read and don't remember it. You said you said that. Fine. I believe you. Am I supposed to comment on that?


  23. by oldedude on August 19, 2022 10:56 am
    My point is that you are saying things that I adamantly did not say. If I were on the fence about it, or change the way I felt, that might be another thing. But I haven't, and you have responded to it.


  24. by oldedude on August 19, 2022 2:01 pm
    REPORT: FBI Was After Documents Trump Believed Would ‘Exonerate’ Him From Russia Conspiracy

    "The FBI was reportedly seeking documents President Donald Trump believed would exonerate him from Russian collusion claims and other election-related charges when agents raided his Mar-a-Lago residence, anonymous intelligence officials told Newsweek.

    The FBI collected all of the documents that were government property and used concerns about classified documents to justify the raid, but agents were looking for Trump’s personal stash containing documents related to Russian collusion accusations against him, fearing that he would “weaponize” them, Newsweek reported. One former Trump official said he may have planned to use the documents to help in a presidential run in the coming term.

    “Trump was particularly interested in matters related to the Russia hoax and the wrong-doings of the deep state,” the official told the outlet, adding that he may have intended to use the documents in a 2024 presidential campaign. “I think he felt, and I agree, that these are facts that the American people need to know.”"


  25. by oldedude on August 19, 2022 2:49 pm
    So as usual, the last cite referenced Newsweek (a notoriously liberal publication). I forgot to cite that one and thought I should cite this. I also cited the original post in the 2nd cite.

    In a nutshell, Trump saw the documents on the Russian collusion lie and really wanted to set the records straight. Obviously, if his name were Assange, Manning, or Snowden, he would be a hero. He had all the intrigue of a novel. The big bad few in some secret office with no creativity making up a story to turn an election and ruin his life. And when he didn't fall, those around him started being coherenced and manipulated by said evil agency until they were ruined. Part II involves the same people still in power. They have their evidence stolen by the now former President. They concoct a new story to raid his home, based on a misdemeanor infringement.

    FBI Sought Documents Trump Hoarded for Years, Including about Russiagate
    "Donald Trump's cache of documents included some about Russiagate. Here, the former president arrives at the America First Policy Institute Agenda Summit in

    The FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago last Monday was specifically intended to recover Donald Trump's personal "stash" of hidden documents, two high-level U.S. intelligence officials tell Newsweek.

    To justify the unprecedented raid on a former president's residence and protect the source who revealed the existence of Trump's private hoard, agents went into Trump's residence on the pretext that they were seeking all government documents, says one official who has been involved in the investigation. But the true target was this private stash, which Justice Department officials feared Donald Trump might weaponize."

    newsweek.com
    shorenewsnetwork.com


  26. by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2022 4:10 pm

    So Big Brother wants to interfere with Trump’s ability to produce evidence in his defense.

    Par for the course.


  27. by Curt_Anderson on August 19, 2022 5:24 pm
    "Obviously, if his name were Assange, Manning, or Snowden, he would be a hero." --OD

    Au contraire. If Trump's name were Assange, Manning or Snowden he'd be in jail or in exile.


  28. by oldedude on August 19, 2022 5:49 pm
    So you're saying that the FISA court and the Director of the FBI were wrong and there was nothing done wrong in Russiagate and/or CROSSFIRE HURRICANE?


  29. by oldedude on August 19, 2022 6:02 pm
    If that is the true reason for the raid, and the government didn't mention that in the affidavit then they can't look for it. I know this is counter to the gestapo thugs on this site but go break other people's glass for a while.

    Again, if I were defense, I would make them pull out those documents and explain them in court. Their actions during that case is seditious at least. Trying to overthrow the government like that is despicable. It also fueled the fire of hate so much so that there have been attempts on the lives of members of Congress and SCOTUS.

    Even if they actually tried to "fix" this and the truth come out, would I support Trump in the primaries? absolutely not. Yes, I believe this is a frame job. I'm wanting to correct the attempted overthrow of an agency of the government (DOJ, FBI, IC inclusive). But it doesn't change my thoughts on him much at all.


  30. by Donna on August 20, 2022 8:28 am
    I'm sorry I assumed that you didn't think that Trump could be a flight risk, olde dude.

    The Russiagate thing - regardless of the reasons Trump may have had to steal government documents, it doesn't excuse what he did. That goes for anyone. If Biden ever stole government documents related to Huntergate, what I said would apply to him too.


  31. by Donna on August 20, 2022 8:36 am
    Assange, Snowden, Manning and Winner all believed they had good and honorable reasons for releasing top secret government documents to the public, but two of them spent years in federal penitentiaries, one in hiding but now in custody, and another in what looks to be permanent hiding in Russia. They all paid and are still paying dearly for their crimes, as they should be, because they all (with the possible exception of Assange) committed felonies.


  32. by oldedude on August 20, 2022 8:49 am
    Okay on the above.

    The question is; does the government have any culpability at all regarding the attempt to sway an election? And is there any wrongdoing regarding how they handled the investigation.


  33. by Donna on August 20, 2022 9:10 am
    That's conjecture. I think it'd be better to wait until we know more, which might be a long time.


  34. by Donna on August 20, 2022 9:38 am
    I don't think it had anything to do with swaying the election, though, because as Curt cited, why, if the aim were political, carry it out at the same time they passed the $740 billion Inflation Reduction Act? Why would the Democrats do something to take the American peoples' attention away from a landmark piece of legislation they're so proud of?

    The DoJ served Trump with a grand jury subpoena months ago for classified documents belonging to the National Archives. He turned over 15 boxes, some which held classified documents, but there was still a lot missing, which prompted the FBI raid in which 12 additional boxes were recovered.

    The DoJ has been working on a very high profile criminal case. Raiding a former president's home is not the kind of thing the DoJ orders unless the magnitude of importance is extremely high. It may be a long time before we know the details of the case, though.




  35. by oldedude on August 20, 2022 11:38 am
    1. We're talking about two different issues. I'm talking about Russiagate and that "investigation.

    I understand what you're saying though. I'm banking on him having the reports regarding CROSSFIRE HURRICANE and getting those before he can do anything that might damage the DOJ with the truth.

    This one, is part of that. If they defame him before he tells the truth about that operation, they're safe. They would rather destroy people rather than people know the truth about them.


  36. by oldedude on August 20, 2022 12:43 pm
    "The DoJ has been working on a very high profile criminal case. Raiding a former president's home is not the kind of thing the DoJ orders unless the magnitude of importance is extremely high. It may be a long time before we know the details of the case, though."

    Remember, they violated their ethics by already lying to the FISA court with a document they KNEW was not true. They have the ethics of Epstein and are willing to do anything in their perceived power (which they feel is omniscient) to see that he and anyone like him will ever try to run for President or be in a disagreement with their "status quo."


  37. by Donna on August 20, 2022 12:51 pm
    As I remember from something islander posted on that case, it was one FBI lawyer who included inaccurate information to obtain that warrant.

    There are bad cops too, but should we react like extremists and paint them all with the same broad brush even to the point of calling for the defunding or abolishment of entire police departments?


  38. by oldedude on August 20, 2022 1:45 pm
    I know this is long, but it seems the only people that have actually heard of this is Lead and myself, which is shocking to me. And yes, it is as convoluted as it reads.

    First, the lawyer had something in the warrant to give to the FISA judge. They got it signed, and then changed it back to the original information. Therefore, any of the "official" paperwork after the judge signed the subpoena, and warrant were invalid. Meaning ANY lead they got from someone mentioned in this paperwork was "fruit of the poison tree, and cannot be used as a lead or evidence at any time.

    There was also the Steele dossier, which proved to be a complete fabrication and they were aware of it when they produced it as "evidence." Igor Danchenko has been charged with five counts of lying to the FBI in interviews during 2017, as the bureau struggled in futility to verify outlandish allegations that Donald Trump and his campaign were clandestine agents of the Kremlin. Those allegations were compiled in the so-called Steele dossier, which the FBI relied on in obtaining surveillance warrants from a secret federal court. The entire team for this case at least knew of the dossier being false or facilitated the information being in the warrant. This was the entire basis for the "Russian collusion" case.

    The dossier was generated by the Clinton campaign. Its principal author was former British spy Christopher Steele. Steele’s main source was Danchenko, a Russian native based in the United States who worked at the Brookings Institution — a Washington think tank whose former president, Strobe Talbott, is a college friend of Bill Clinton’s who worked in the Clinton State Department.

    To boot, Hillary was the one that turned the FBI on to the dossier because they paid for the dossier to be written through a third party firm, Fusion GPS. Fusion GPS was a firm working for the Dim Party.


    nypost.com
    nypost.com


  39. by Donna on August 21, 2022 10:04 am

    I've heard it too. I'm very familiar with that theory. But the actual investigation that was led by Senate Republicans found that the Steele Dossier isn't what initiated the investigation into Trump's alleged collusion with Russia.

    From Dossier Not What ‘Started All of This’

    Ratcliffe, March 25: That this was a fake, phony dossier that started all of this, funded by the Democrats. … It wasn’t real and now Bob Mueller says it wasn’t real.

    ...Ratcliffe is wrong to say the dossier “started all of this.” Competing memos from the Republicans and the Democrats on the House intelligence committee both say that information about George Papadopoulos, a Trump campaign foreign policy adviser,had prompted the FBI investigation in July 2016.

    Papadopoulos had contacts with Russian intermediaries during the campaign, according to the Justice Department, and later pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about those contacts. While he was a Trump campaign adviser, Papadopoulos met with a professor with connections to Russian government officials who told him “about the Russians possessing ‘dirt’ on then-candidate Hillary Clinton in the form of ‘thousands of emails,'” and he tried to arrange a meeting between the Russian government and the campaign, the DOJ’s statement of the offense said.

    A memo released Feb. 2, 2018, by the Republicans on the House intelligence committee raised concerns about the use of the dossier in an application from the DOJ and FBI under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to conduct electronic surveillance on Carter Page, another Trump campaign foreign policy adviser. But it said the “Papadopoulos information triggered the opening of an FBI counterintelligence investigation in late July 2016.”

    And from Wikipedia (sources at link):

    Many allegations in the dossier have been dismissed by authorities or remain unverified.[34][35][36] While the dossier played a central role in the seeking of FISA warrants on Carter Page,[37][38][39] it did not play any role in the intelligence community's assessment about Russian actions in the 2016 election,[40][41][42][43] and it was not the trigger for the opening of the Russia investigation into whether the Trump campaign was coordinating with the Russian government's interference in the 2016 presidential election.[37][44][45] 

    The dossier is a factor in several conspiracy theories promoted by Trump[46] and his supporters in the media[47] and Congress.[37][44][45]

    factcheck.org
    en.m.wikipedia.org


  40. by Donna on August 21, 2022 10:07 am
    Correction: It was the House Intelligence Committee, not Senate.


  41. by oldedude on August 21, 2022 2:34 pm
    It was by far, the main thrust of what FBI/ DOJ used for warrants. I think they rewrote your history. So far, 5 people have been either fired or have resigned from the Bureau because of using the Dossier for warrants. And they're not done. It was so egregious the FISA lead judge blasted the DOJ/ FBI for the complete lack of any professionalism, ethics, or adherence to the law.

    The FBI Director had to make a statement and apologize to the FISA court for their actions.

    Does that really sound like a "conspiracy theory?" Since 2019, CNN, MSNBC, NYT, and several other media outlets have apologized for not believing Your erroneous spins and lies regarding this.

    "How Did So Much of the Media Get the Steele Dossier So Wrong?" NYT
    "That memo, soon to become known as the “Steele dossier” when a former British intelligence officer named Christopher Steele was publicly identified as its author, would inspire a slew of juicy, and often thinly sourced, articles and commentaries about Mr. Trump and Russia.

    Now it has been largely discredited by two federal investigations and the indictment of a key source, leaving journalists to reckon how, in the heat of competition, so many were taken in so easily because the dossier seemed to confirm what they already suspected.

    Many of the dossier’s allegations have turned out to be fictitious or, at best, unprovable. That wasn’t for want of trying by reporters from mainstream and progressive media outlets. Many journalists did show restraint. The New York Times’s Adam Goldman was asked by the Washington Post media critic Erik Wemple about two years ago how reporters should have approached an unverified rumor from the dossier. He responded, “By not publishing.”

    "The Washington Post’s Erik Wemple called out CNN and MSNBC over their coverage of the infamous dossier compiled by former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele.

    Last week, Special Counsel John Durham — who was appointed by the Trump administration to review the handling of the Russia investigation — indicted Igor Danchenko, a major source included in the Steele dossier, for making false statements to the FBI.

    Steele’s dossier, which alleged that Russia had compromising information on Trump, was largely hailed by the media as credible, despite being unverified and containing glaring errors (see: spelling Alfa Group as “Alpha Group” throughout.)

    The charges against Danchenko, the dossier’s primary intelligence collector, are further evidence undermining the information included within the document, as he was charged with five counts of making false statements to the FBI regarding his dosser sources.

    “The indictment provides further insight into why the FBI had concluded that the dossier was mostly a jumble of claims that were inaccurate, unconfirmed or already publicly reported,” Wemple wrote in a piece criticizing some in the media for their breathless coverage of the dossier.

    “Sourcing for the dossier was threadbare in the most charitable of depictions,” he wrote."
    nytimes.com
    cnn.com
    msn.com


  42. by Donna on August 21, 2022 8:59 pm
    My post was a rebuttal to your claim "This was the entire basis for the 'Russian collusion' case." Findings by the the Republican-led House Intelligence committee refute that claim.


  43. by oldedude on August 22, 2022 8:00 am
    The fact remains that we don't know what either of the warrants touched or didn't. Every piece of information gleaned as a result of those two warrants are lies created by the swamp. And the media ran away with the lies on the paper. The probability they used information who's original source stemmed from those warrants. This includes getting Title III warrants, and ability to spy on an opposing PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.

    Isn't that piece, the spying on a Presidential Candidate what you were in an uproar about with pedojoe and jr? Wasn't that the "reason for the first House trial? and all they got was some normal conversation that didn't prove anything? So the dims were up in arms about that, but their own side actually weaponized DOJ, FBI, and the IC to do exactly that? AND they knew they only had fictional crimes?

    My point all along has been that this abhorrent abuse of the constitution ought to be charged. And the FBI admitted in recent testimony that nothing had been done about it. This is worse than Watergate. Far worse. Even Nixon, who got what he deserved, did wrong, he didn't weaponize federal power to take a President out of office with known lies.


  44. by Donna on August 22, 2022 9:47 am
    All I'm seeing from the Dems and GOP now is conjecture. People are so impatient and want to jump to conclusions. And no, I don't remember commenting on let alone getting in an "uproar" over what you thought you remembered.


  45. by HatetheSwamp on August 22, 2022 9:58 am

    And, Donna, reporting on the cable news channels is wild speculation. It's their biggest story...and nothing is happening and none of them can just, as Paul McCartney sang, "Let it be."

    View Video


  46. by Donna on August 22, 2022 10:12 am
    The media general often have a oriblem finding things to discuss, so they fill all the holes with conjecture.

    We were a more unified country when we all got our news from the same sources which all employed real journalists.


  47. by HatetheSwamp on August 22, 2022 10:13 am

    Amen, preach it, Donna!


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