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Senators say agreement on gun violence compromise is at hand

By HatetheSwamp
June 21, 2022 3:23 pm
Category: Government

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The legislation lawmakers have been working toward would toughen background checks for the youngest firearms buyers, require more sellers to conduct background checks and beef up penalties on gun traffickers. It also would disburse money to states and communities aimed at improving school safety and mental health initiatives.

We'll see what the text of the bill looks like...

...and how the wackos on both sides react.


Cited and related links:

  1. apnews.com

Comments Start Below


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Comments on "Senators say agreement on gun violence compromise is at hand":

  1. by oldedude on June 21, 2022 8:12 pm
    My bet is the bill will go up to SCOTUS and be found unconstitutional on several levels.


  2. by Curt_Anderson on June 21, 2022 9:33 pm
    OD,
    Below is what Senators Murphy and Cornyn say are in the bill. It seems safely constitutional to me. What parts do you think the SCOTUS would strike?

    Closure of the so-called boyfriend loophole.

    Requires more gun sellers to register as Federally Licensed Firearm Dealers.

    More thorough reviews of people age 18-21 who want to buy guns.

    Creates new federal statutes against gun trafficking and straw trafficking.

    Increases funding for mental health programs and school security.


  3. by oldedude on June 22, 2022 8:34 am
    Curt- Sorry for the long answer, but you asked a legit question, and it needed to be answered.

    You also missed a federal red flag law (although the boyfriend clause is part of that). They'll strike that down on due process. As that law is written now, if I honestly didn't like you enough, I could call up BATFE and have them no-knock your house without anything more than my word.

    So you're saying that an 18 year old can enlist and is considered an adult except when it's not convenient. Oh, BTW, they're actually ISSUED a TRUE assault weapon or machine gun.

    Take note the areas with the highest gun murder rates are areas where the toughest laws are. NYC, CHI, LA are examples. How are you going to fix that? The issue is about illegal guns, where is the generally a mass killing at least once per week. This accounts for ~99.7% of gun homicides.

    There is nothing else that isn't already in law. The sheep just don't want to play within the rules. The only mass killer (the kind that gets coverage, not the gangster mass shooting as above) that didn't have issues that we knew before the attack was Las Vegas. Every other one, NOTHING was said by those support to be reporting. Parkland was a special case. The school district specifically chose to take the recommendations of obomber's dept of Education and did not report any of his multiple encounters with the authorities. My view? Don't coddle those who are holding a bag of murdered cats on their facebook page.


  4. by oldedude on June 22, 2022 8:55 am
    Also Curt- Legit gun owners are also concerned about these murders, and may be more so. We agree that if ANYONE shows signs (killing kittens or puppies, nailing cats to doors, setting fires, etc) there needs to be some intervention. Military or civilian, whatever. On our teams, we were really careful to watch for the signs. Sometimes, it's just a conversation. Sometimes it gets escalated.

    I do agree with the psychological assistance.

    The issue with that is that if I go to the VA and say my wife and I are having issues and I'd like some help with some couples or individual counseling. The VA calls BATFE to no knock my house and look for guns. Therefore, legit veteran gun owners don't tell the VA about any problems.

    The issue of gun registration is also a sore subject. We, as gun owners, do not trust the Marxists in this country. If there are registration, there is "a list" of gun owners in the country. They just go house to house on no-knocks. pedojoe, boxer, little nancy, and several more people have stated they will use registration just for that.

    So all in all, good question, very complex answer.


  5. by HatetheSwamp on June 22, 2022 9:08 am

    I agree, OD. The issue here is the long arm of Big Brother.

    We all saw how easily and shamelessly Dems attack and abuse individual liberty during the pandemic.

    It happened everywhere. Without fail.


  6. by HatetheSwamp on June 22, 2022 12:52 pm

    New Trafalgar Group poll finds Americans believe RedFlag laws have potential to be abused by local authorities to disarm political opponents:

    46.7% Yes
    30.8% No
    22.5% Unsure

    Yes by Party

    16.4% #Dem
    72.2% #GOP
    52.3% #Ind

    *****

    We are always in danger of Big Brother of usurping the liberty of individual citizens.

    A substantial plurality fear those red flag laws, including majorities of both Independents and Republicans.

    My guess is that you Blue MAGAs will sleep soundly. Who cares about due process, right?


  7. by oldedude on June 22, 2022 9:34 pm
    Lead, to Marxists, this is nothing. It was allowed in with Hitler and Himmler. Allowed in with Stalin. As I grew up, people warned me of such things. I passed them off. Now it's a real thing. Warrant less no-knocks are a real thing now. We know from history that Dictators hate the LGBTQ+ community and have sought to rid them off the face of the earth (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot). I wonder what Pondy would say when she gets no-knocked because she lives with her wife and it's now "illegal" by the regime she helped place in to power.

    The thing I always say, that no one listens to is: what if there is a "president" that is an ultra right nationalist that would take your rights because you are you. I have lived in countries where I was forced to wear a badge to tell my religion. There are so many things wrong with this, and yet they support the alienation of people, and the destruction of human rights. Not from the right, but from the left. This is why the latinos and blacks are coming over to the GOP or Conservatives. They have been left.

    The goal is to find a place where we will listen to each other. If you don't care to, then you're the enemy.


  8. by Curt_Anderson on June 22, 2022 10:06 pm
    OD,
    The way to look at gun homicides isn't to count the number of deaths in our biggest cities. Look at gun deaths per capita. The states with the highest firearm death rates are all red states. They are in order:
    Mississippi
    Louisiana
    Wyoming
    Missouri
    Alabama
    Alaska
    New Mexico
    Arkansas
    South Carolina
    Tennessee
    Montana
    Oklahoma
    Kentucky

    As for your observation that 18 year-olds can enlist in the military, therefore they shouldn't have their gun purchase rights restricted, a couple of points.
    1. It's already federal law that 18, 19 and 20 year-olds cannot by hand guns.
    2. The US military disqualifies puppy and kitten killers and certain other mental health issues as should gun sellers.
    cdc.gov
    texastribune.org


  9. by Donna on June 22, 2022 10:20 pm
    Can't argue with those numbers, although some might stupidly try.

    My dad never owned a gun, none of my brothers have ever owned a gun, I've never owned a gun, and my wife has never owned a gun. We don't live in fear.


  10. by oldedude on June 23, 2022 8:17 pm
    So then, you believe the murders in these large blue cities are meaningless. Got it.
    Also, the major cities in those states are the highest in murders, and are "generally" dim.

    Louisiana- Dim state NOLA. #1 up 100%
    Missouri- Dim mayor KC #17, up 45%
    New Mexico- Dim State Albuquerque #15 up 48%
    South Carolina- Dim mayor Charlotte #44 up 23%
    Tennessee- Dim mayor Memphis #5 up 70%
    Oklahoma- OKC #24 up 40%
    Kentucky- Dim mayor Louisville #7 up 57%

    These states did not have one of the top 50 increases according to the study.
    Alabama-
    Alaska-
    Arkansas-
    Mississippi-
    Montana
    Wyoming

    "Cities with the Highest Increase in Homicide Rates During Covid" (https://wallethub.com/edu/cities-homicide-rate/94070)


  11. by Donna on June 23, 2022 8:33 pm
    It's alarming no doubt.

    I'm interested to see how you're going to pin the high per capita firearm death rates of Mississippi, Wyoming, Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, and Montana on "Dims".


  12. by Donna on June 23, 2022 9:12 pm
    Btw od, you misinterpreted the column on the original chart designated as "Total Score". "Total Score" doesn't represent the percentage of increase in homicide rate. It's some kind of weighted system they're using as a ranking.

    I've calculated the percent increases in homicide rate for Q1 2022 vs Q1 2020. All corrections to your original post are in bold type.

    Louisiana - Dim mayor NOLA. #1 up 51%
    Missouri - Dim mayor KC #17, down 52%
    New Mexico- Dim State Albuquerque #15 up 36%
    South Carolina- Dim mayor Charlotte #44 down 56%
    Tennessee- Dim mayor Memphis #5 up 17%
    Oklahoma- Repugnantan mayor OKC #24 up 28%
    Kentucky- Dim mayor Louisville #7 up 33%





  13. by Donna on June 24, 2022 7:50 am
    I remember back in the old forum how od frequently misinterpreted data.


  14. by oldedude on June 24, 2022 11:40 am
    You're wrong. The chart was about increases in murders of 50 metropolitan areas.
    Why would there be an decrease on this chart? You make no sense. That said, I don't think so, but you'll live in your own dillusional world anyway, so whathefuk.

    You're another one that doesn't give a shit about the murders in large cities. You live in one of the most gang and drug infested areas of cali. Other than southcentral, I wouldn't drive through long beach, much less live there. And you said earlier that you watch the cops "harrass" innocent groups of blacks in the park. Maybe they're doing that for a reason? Maybe they're doing the fukking job and just talking to them (which is good policing).


  15. by oldedude on June 24, 2022 11:55 am
    Curt- "1. It's already federal law that 18, 19 and 20 year-olds cannot by hand guns.
    2. The US military disqualifies puppy and kitten killers and certain other mental health issues as should gun sellers."
    1. I agree. It's also part of the law that those with TS+ clearances must get a "background" also. I go through a clearance where my friends are investigated to see if I can pass. All they have to do is to link in with scattered castles and look at it. It's a 15 second check.
    2. Wellllll, sometimes. It totally depends on what's been reported and is in their portfolio. Just like a gun background. If it's not reported, it didn't happen.
    And on both, there is no exemption for military. In certain states, there is an exemption for Concealed Carry permits to active duty and former military.


    Donna- "My dad never owned a gun, none of my brothers have ever owned a gun, I've never owned a gun, and my wife has never owned a gun. We don't live in fear."
    We call you sheep for a reason. You're one of those that can't or won't see anything you don't want to. My dad never owned a gun either. My brother does (a former liberal teacher, now a conservative gun owner). My wife and I both conceal carry. It's to protect the sheep like yourself. Like I've said before, if I'm in DC, Denver, Seattle, NYC, californication, etc. I refuse to lift a finger to help anyone because of the legal repercussions.


  16. by oldedude on June 24, 2022 2:34 pm
    "Btw od, you misinterpreted the column on the original chart designated as "Total Score". "Total Score" doesn't represent the percentage of increase in homicide rate. It's some kind of weighted system they're using as a ranking. "

    I took the numbers from the reference. Talk to them. And "some kind of weighted system" does not explain what you said. I'm not going to argue, you're not worth my time or energy.


  17. by Donna on June 24, 2022 8:49 pm
    There's nothing wrong with my math. If you don't believe me, look at the Q1 2020 figures and the Q1 2022 figures for each city. You'll see that the cities I said decreased in murders from Q1 2020 to Q1 2022 in fact did. You misinterpreted the chart.


  18. by Donna on June 24, 2022 8:52 pm
    Btw, they give a brief explanation what "Total Score" means. It's not, as you assumed, the percentage of increase in murders.

    Whine all you want. You're wrong.



  19. by Donna on June 24, 2022 9:28 pm
    I just re-examined that chart.

    Actually we're both wrong. "Total Score" isn't the percentage increase in homocides, but I calculated the percent increase incorrectly.

    I'll post an update tomorrow.


  20. by Donna on June 25, 2022 9:47 am
    "Why would there be an decrease on this chart?" - od

    I dunno. Let's take a look at one example, Kansas City, MO.

    You posted:
    Missouri - Dim mayor KC #17, up 45%

    I posted:
    Missouri - Dim mayor KC #17, down 52%

    Here's what the chart says:

    (All Homicide numbers listed are per 100,000 residents)

    Rank/City/Tot Score/Homicides Q1 2022/Change ('22 vs '21)/Change ('22 vs '20)

    17 / KC / 44.91 / 8.96 / -2.44 / -4.68

    So from the numbers on the chart:

    In Q1 2022, the homicide rate in KC was 8.96 per 100,000 residents.

    That was down by 2.44 from Q1 2021

    That was down by 4.68 from Q1 2020.

    So I should have said -34%, not -52%.

    It certainly didn't increase by 45%, as you said. 45 is the Total Score, not the percentage increase.

    ***

    12 of the 50 cities listed showed decreases in homicides from 2020 to 2022, most of them slight. 38 of the 50 cities listed showed increases, most of them slight also.

    Here's what the website said about Total Score, which you confused with percent increase in homocides:

    Methodology

    In order to assess the changes in homicides across cities, we calculated the number of homicides per capita in Q1 2022 and the change in the number of homicides per capita in the first quarter of 2022 compared to the first quarter of 2021 and 2020.

    In determining our sample, we included 50 of the most populated U.S. cities that had locally published homicide data available for our specific time period. We used the UCR definition for criminal homicide. Data from this study is based in some cases on preliminary police department crime data, which is subject to reclassification upon further investigation.

    The metrics used are listed below with their corresponding weights. Each metric was graded on a 100-point scale, with a score of 100 representing the highest homicide rates.

    We then determined the weighted average across all metrics to calculate an overall score for each city and used the resulting scores to rank-order the cities.

    Homicides per Capita in Q1 2022: Double Weight (~50.00 Points)
    Change in Homicides (Q1 2022 vs. Q1 2021): Full Weight (~25.00 Points)
    Note: This is the absolute difference in the homicide rate per capita.
    Change in Homicides (Q1 2022 vs. Q1 2020): Full Weight (~25.00 Points)
    Note: This is the absolute difference in the homicide rate per capita.

    ***

    That's a very vague explanation. Not saying it's wrong, but it's impossible to tell from that explanation how they arrived at their Total Scores and rankings.











  21. by oldedude on June 25, 2022 10:04 am
    Again, Argue with those that put out the study. I'm sure they'll see exactly what you're talking about and make the correction. Since they have no clue what they're talking about.


  22. by Donna on June 25, 2022 10:36 am
    I wouldn't know what to argue. They don't provide enough info on the methodology they used. It isn't important enough to me to follow up on though.


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