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Gay & Lesbian selectors, pages, etc.
US raises Pride flag at embassy to the Holy See
By HatetheSwamp
June 1, 2022 2:56 pm
Category: Gay & Lesbian

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And, next month the Biden administration will hoist a FREE TAIWAN flag in Beijing!

That Former Truck Driver is the master of international diplomacy. Sheeeeeeeeeeeesh!

According to the moral teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, same-sex attraction itself is not a sin, and that all human beings are deserving of dignity regardless of race, creed, gender or sexual orientation.

However, sodomy and other homosexual acts are considered a "grave travesty" and the church maintains that "under no circumstances can they be approved."

The U.S. Embassy's decision to fly the pride flag is only the latest in a growing cultural clash between the Roman Catholic Church in America and the U.S. civil government.

Wanna set me straight on any of these allegedly objective truths, isle.

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Comments on "US raises Pride flag at embassy to the Holy See":

  1. by islander on June 1, 2022 3:37 pm

    You did a pretty good job of giving the official doctrine of the Catholic Church on homosexuality! 

👍

    Do I agree accept the premises upon which they justify their conclusion? No.

    Do you know what those premises are, and do you accept them and agree with Catholic teaching on this?

  2. by HatetheSwamp on June 1, 2022 3:48 pm

    isle,

    Apart from the crystal clear Old and New Testament teaching that same sex is a sin, no.

  3. by islander on June 1, 2022 4:49 pm

    Does your "no" mean that you don't agree with the Catholic teaching, or you don't agree with the premises upon which it is based, or you don't know what those premises are, or that you don't agree that homosexual "behavior" is forbidden by a God (a grave sin) ?

  4. by HatetheSwamp on June 1, 2022 5:01 pm

    Sorry.

    I meant that I don't know what the premises are. Other than the Bible.

  5. by islander on June 1, 2022 5:30 pm

    The condensed version of the Catholic Church’s premises are that homosexual acts are intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law, and that they are “objectively disordered”. These are derived from their interpretation of Jesus teachings in the Bible.

  6. by Curt_Anderson on June 1, 2022 7:57 pm
    If embassies don't promote and stand up for our values, whether it's a free and democratic Taiwan or gay rights, what's the point in having diplomats?

  7. by HatetheSwamp on June 2, 2022 4:14 am

    Interesting, Curt. That's an interesting assertion. I'm not sure that's the role of an embassy.

    I'm picturing a large banner in front of the Saudi embassy in DC, with an image of condemned homosexuals, lined up, on their knees, being beheaded. I'm sure that would advance relations between the two nations about as much as that Pride flag at the Vatican does.

    And, your Blue MAGA Swampcult progressive sanctimony notwithstanding, considering the popularity of Florida's "Don't Say Gay" law and the explosion of similar laws in so many states, I'm pretty sure that flag doesn't represent our values.

  8. by islander on June 2, 2022 6:29 am

    So, Hate, now that you have some sort of an idea regarding Catholic teaching on homosexuality, do you still disagree with it?


  9. by HatetheSwamp on June 2, 2022 7:30 am

    More or less but there are many things being a Catholic implies.

    I'm postmodern Bible-thumper, not a Roman Catholic.

  10. by islander on June 2, 2022 8:14 am

    You don't have to be a Roman Catholic to agree or disagree with Catholic teaching on homosexuality. I told you that I disagree with it.

    You asked me to clarify the Catholic position on homosexuality for you so that's what I did.

    Now I'd like it if you could explain what parts of it you disagree with.

    If you don't want to discuss it that's fine too.

  11. by HatetheSwamp on June 2, 2022 9:05 am

    I agree with the Bible stuff, the spiritual stuff. My sense of the institutionalized church...and the Roman Catholic Church is most institutionalized...is they try to make their beliefs the law of the land.

    A short while back, I mentioned that my orientation is not Protestant but Anabaptist. You ignored that. The Anabaptists were the original "separation of church and state" gang, among other things that they were.

    I've always made it clear here that I don't want my to make this a Christian nation. But, on the Jesus stuff, I agree.

  12. by islander on June 2, 2022 1:13 pm

    "I agree with the Bible stuff"

    So you agree with Catholic's condemnation of homosexual behavior baced on the teachings of Jesus but you reject their secular philosophical argument...that homosexual acts are intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law, and that they are “objectively disordered”.

    I take it then that your arguments against gay rights such as gay marriage etc stem from your religious beliefs.

  13. by georges on June 2, 2022 7:54 pm
    If embassies don't promote and stand up for our values, whether it's a free and democratic Taiwan or gay rights, what's the point in having diplomats?

    The US doesn't have values, it has interests.

    In this case the US is interested in turning spinsters, sexual deviants and ethnic minorities worldwide into a fifth column working against rival nations.

  14. by HatetheSwamp on June 3, 2022 3:44 am

    Good point, georges.

    Truthfully, we do have values, radical commendable values "endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights...life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," "of the people, by the people and for the people..."

    The problem is that our progressives here reject the values the nation was founded on to embrace big government that would be authoritarian, if the rest of us would allow it.

    We must appear to be quite a mess from the outside.

  15. by HatetheSwamp on June 3, 2022 4:42 am

    So you agree with Catholic's condemnation of homosexual behavior baced on the teachings of Jesus but you reject their secular philosophical argument...that homosexual acts are intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law, and that they are “objectively disordered”.

    I'm not sure how secular the "secular philosophical argument" is.

    This is what I was talking about when I said that, from a pure academic perspective, I think I probably understand Catholicism as well as you do but I don't know what it's like to be...or have been a Catholic.

    I think that the concept of natural law has a significance within Catholic conversation that only a person reared Catholic can appreciate. I know the definition of the term technically but what it means for Catholics to debate about it? I don't have the shared experience. And, what "objectively disordered" means in your community is beyond me.

    To postmodern Bible-thumper, it's clear that the early Christians considered same sex sex to be a sin and that it excluded every practicing homosexual from its numbers.

  16. by islander on June 3, 2022 5:47 am

    A person doesn’t have to be a Catholic to understand what those terms mean since it is not just Catholics who use them.

    Natural law for example, is not a “Catholic term”. Natural law is a theory in ethics and philosophy that says that human beings possess intrinsic values that govern their reasoning and behavior. “That” is something that can be argued “outside of religion”

    Objective disorder is referring to a mental health disorder. Do you think homosexuality is an objective mental health disorder.

    I disagree the Catholic Church’s positions on both. My arguments against them have nothing to do with religion. Although I do think a person’s religious beliefs can unconsciously influence a person’s position on them, they are not strictly religious or theological arguments.

    What I’m asking you is if “you” reject those arguments as well and if you have any philosophical or ethical arguments outside of your religious beliefs that can account for your position against homosexual behavior and gay rights ?

  17. by HatetheSwamp on June 3, 2022 5:58 am

    I disagree the Catholic Church’s positions on both. My arguments against them have nothing to do with religion.

    I'm anxious to know. What do you suppose your "arguments" do have to do with.

    BTW, I'd love to know your definition of "religion." The connotation in which you use the term suggests that, for you, religion is a synonym for "feces."

    What I’m asking you is if “you” reject those arguments as well and if you have any philosophical or ethical arguments outside of your religious beliefs."

    Again. What qualifies, for you as a religious belief? I'm assuming that, by that you refer to what I think about when I roll in a pile of poop...

  18. by HatetheSwamp on June 3, 2022 6:07 am

    Sorry for not closing the quote in bold.

  19. by islander on June 3, 2022 7:12 am

    "Again. What qualifies, for you as a religious belief? I'm assuming that, by that you refer to what I think about when I roll in a pile of poop..."

    I think it's time we end this discussion...

  20. by HatetheSwamp on June 3, 2022 7:39 am

    Oy vey!

    So which is it:

    1. You can't?...
    2. You won't?...

    ...define what you mean by "religious belief?"

    I think we stumbled on one form of your kryptonite!

  21. by Donna on June 3, 2022 9:00 am
    That's the best idea you've ever posted, islander. I highly tecommend that you follow through with it.

  22. by Donna on June 3, 2022 9:06 am
    Aren't you guys sick and tired of arguing over politics and religion?

  23. by HatetheSwamp on June 3, 2022 9:31 am

    My sense of isle is that that he uses the accusation of being religious as a club...to defend himself.

    This chat has turned to philosophy. This is, now, about how you know. Epistemology.

    isle, it seems, can't say how he knows...other that he's Mr Spock...oh, denies that, too. He's objective. Rational. Reasonable. Logical.

    He absolutely doesn't believe anything.

  24. by islander on June 3, 2022 2:09 pm

    Donna - I actually enjoy a good debate or discussion about philosophy, religion/theology, and even politics. And by good I mean genuine, it can be fun, and to me, interesting. And I've been fortunate enough to have some good ones over the years and, believe it or not, I've even had a few on Facebook.

    I’m aware that’s not what Hate is here for but I’m also curious about what makes people tick, the psychology behind someone like Hate. Why does he or someone like him come onto a board like this and do what they do? I try to read between the lines, for me, it’s a learning experience.

    Once it devolves into a reply to a genuine question like Hate’s though, “I'm assuming that, by that you refer to what I think about when I roll in a pile of poop"...I know the discussion is over.

  25. by Donna on June 3, 2022 2:48 pm
    Well you know how I feel sbout Hts. We're just a source of entertainment and amusement to him. He finds out what your buttons are and then pushes them constantly. Then we react like trained seals. Occasionally he'll engage in a rational conversation, but they come too far and inbetween to make it worth the wait for me anymore. I'll still be posting here, but on a more limited basis.


  26. by HatetheSwamp on June 3, 2022 3:04 pm

    isle,

    Tell me I'm not justified in concluding that you think religious beliefs are crap.

  27. by islander on June 3, 2022 4:06 pm

    Donna- I know that’s what he does, but like I said, I’m curious about what causes him to do that, and I have to wonder why he does it here on the kind of discussions we have. 



    Do you think all his wearing of his religious beliefs on his sleeve, you know, “I’m a follower of Jesus” and his claims to be one of God’s prophets are genuine? Does he really think he is any of those things? Or is this just a part of his game? Surely he must know that he makes those who are genuine look bad if he is an example of them, and I have been fortunate enough to meet some of the genuine ones in my life, and they “don’t” act anything at all like Hate. I have to wonder whats driving him and what’s underneath it all.

    It appears, at least to me, that there is a lot of anger and bitterness in him that he tries to project onto the rest of us and I can’t help but I wonder where it is all coming from.

  28. by Donna on June 4, 2022 5:37 pm
    I really don't care.

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