By Curt_Anderson December 28, 2023 11:54 am Category: Religion (2.0 from 1 vote) Rules of the Post Write A New Article How To Post Here Rate this article (5=best, 0=poor)

I'm a Jesus-follower. The continuing, ongoing message of Jesus was the call to "repent and believe the 'gospel.'" That's what a person must do to enter the Kingdom of God.

Anybody who has given more than a moment's thought to it, realizes how ridiculous the concept of heaven and the supposed entry requirements are.

So all it takes is to be penitent and gullible? Those are the supposed qualities required to be a celestial citizen? No requirements of being honest, helpful, decent, friendly, compassionate, loyal or anything else that characterizes a good person?

If heaven is really populated by only those who "repent and believe the gospel", that sounds like hell to me. If I have spend eternity with any group, I'd rather it be with intelligent, critical thinkers who don't swallow every preposterous biblical claim hook, line and sinker. HtS's idea of heaven sounds too much like a MAGA rally where questioning the orange lord is verboten.

Incidentally, it's no coincidence that fundamentalist Christians flock to the character-flawed Donald Trump.

Those entry requirement of repenting and believing would exclude all infants, toddlers, most children, the intellectually disabled and anybody else who either has nothing to repent or has not had exposure to the gospel. Not sure about flora and fauna.

Comments Start Below

by HatetheSwamp on December 28, 2023 12:13 pm Curt, What do you suppose it means to repent? I make the point, from time to time, that Oxford and Cambridge and Harvard and Yale and Princeton...in fact, all of the Ivy League except Penn, have thriving Divinity Schools, or seminaries. Chicago. Duke. Notre Dame. The theophobes here frequently attempt to argue that only morons believe in God. That's a hard case to make. by Indy! on December 28, 2023 12:13 pm We had a death in the family this year, so I went to church for the first time in years for a memorial service. You forget how punitive god is according to religion. We're supposed to be mourning the loss of a loved one and in between the priest is telling us how we need to get our religious shit right if we want to end up in heaven like the recently deceased person (who I can guarantee the priest did not know in any way at all). by HatetheSwamp on December 28, 2023 12:18 pm Institutionalized religion!!!!!! by Curt_Anderson on December 28, 2023 12:18 pm "The theophobes here frequently attempt to argue that only morons believe in God." ---HtS That's not true. But it's probably true that most, if not all, morons believe in God. by oldedude on December 28, 2023 12:22 pm I guess the difference be isle and curt and myself is that I'm not shaming them into thinking like I do. Again, they sound like bible thumpers or smokers that just quit and feel like the entire world must believe in their set of ideas. Which in both cases, is way too low of a bar for me. I'm worth more than that. I believe I can obtain that goal. Not that it's easy, and some things are a struggle, and it's doable. We'll see what happens. by Curt_Anderson on December 28, 2023 12:39 pm OD, I don't particularly care or want all people to think like I do. I am skeptical of "beliefs", in other words accepting something to be true without question. I don't like lying if it's a person lying to themselves, because sooner or later they will attempt to convince others of the lie they tell themselves. It's better to know something is true than to believe something is true. by oldedude on December 28, 2023 1:20 pm So you don't accept their "truth" and use your "truth" as the absolute truth in the world. Got it. by HatetheSwamp on December 28, 2023 1:23 pm OD, I'm sure Curt'll deny it but that's what he just said. by Curt_Anderson on December 28, 2023 1:34 pm So you don't accept their "truth" and use your "truth" as the absolute truth in the world. Got it. ---OD I don't accept the concepts of "their truth", "alternate facts" or similar variations. Something is either true or it's not. It's either a fact or it's not. I accept that people can hold different opinions based upon the facts. My BS-detector is in full working order. That's why you will often see me asking posters here to provide evidence in the form of link to their outlandish claims. by islander on December 28, 2023 1:41 pm ” I guess the difference be isle and curt and myself is that I'm not shaming them into thinking like I do.” ` od Wow !! I don’t know how you ever came up with that od !! Like Curt, I’m not trying to get anybody to believe like I do. I’ve simply been asking Hate what he believes with regard to the requirements to enter “The Kingdom of God.” Does Hate think a person is required to believe certain things? This all stems from Hate’s question on the other thread as to why institutional Christianity is losing ground in America. I reminded him that it is not just institutional Christianity that is losing ground, I also gave Hate my reason for leaving institutional religion, but unlike Hate, I don’t despise institutional religion. I have known some very good and decent people whose morals were shaped through their “institutional” Christian church, and the religious beliefs they learned helped them through some very rough times. And it helped them to experience a sense of well being that they might not have been able to experience otherwise. by Curt_Anderson on December 28, 2023 1:59 pm Islander, When I was in college there was a group called the Navigators constantly roaming through the dorms proselytizing. I found out later that the Navigators were a national organization. In the few times that I cornered into hearing their pitch, they nearly always would relate how they led sorry lives of criminal behavior fueled by drug/alcohol abuse. It seemed to me that it was better that they were addicted to Jesus in place of drugs or alcohol. For them, religion acted like a placebo and it can be a good thing. There is no science behind the cure, but if it has the desired effect, it's better than the direction they were going. by oldedude on December 28, 2023 2:16 pm I don't accept the concepts of "their truth", "alternate facts" or similar variations. Something is either true or it's not. It's either a fact or it's not. You actually believe this is a math problem, with exact answers. I believe there are infinite possibilities, and that my faith is a different reality based on my life and experiences. And even though the words Lead and I read are the same, there are different realities that affect each person's take on those words. In short, those are the exact words the bible thumpers use for "their" "reality." by islander on December 28, 2023 2:20 pm I agree with you Curt. I've often said that if a belief in, and a fear of eternal damnation, is the only thing keeping they guy down the street from raping my daughter...I wholeheartedly want him to keep on believing even though I myself don't believe in eternal damnation or a literal hell. I believe religion can be a source for good and it can bring out the best in many people but because of its nature, it can also be a powerful source for evil. by islander on December 28, 2023 2:56 pm There is only one reality, and truth is that which conforms to reality…There is no ‘my reality’ and ‘your reality’ or my truth and your truth. We all have different things that happen to us, we all have different experiences and we all have different beliefs and opinions, some are true and some are false. It can be deadly when someone’s truth conflicts with reality. John’s ‘truth’ is that Tigers are harmless and friendly, so he and his daughter climb over the fence at the Tiger enclosure in order that his little girl can go up and pat the friendly tigers. But the father’s ‘truth’ does not conform to reality. The father also believes in alternative realities and in his alternative reality he and his daughter are perfectly safe in the tiger’s enclosure… We can see how this belief in alternate realities is destroying our country and this is the inevitable result of believing in my truth and your truth and my reality and your reality. by Curt_Anderson on December 28, 2023 4:33 pm "You actually believe this is a math problem, with exact answers. I believe there are infinite possibilities, and that my faith is a different reality based on my life and experiences." ---OD It's not a math problem, but to use a mathematical term, True and False is binary. The true or factual answer is exact. The truth can also be unpleasant. No doubt life experiences can color one's outlook. Since I haven't had violent run-ins with people, I don't feel the need to have a gun at my bedside. If I didn't have a happy marriage of 43 years, I might be cynical about love. As for those infinite possibilities, religion is good at coming up with a single story for each of life's question and making it dogma. Religion feeds into people's need to have simple, pat answers. Heaven, Paradise, Nirvana, Santa's workshop, et cetera may be appealing stories but are totally without evidence and at odds with all methods of scientific observation not to mention logic. Donald Rumsfeld was mocked when he talked about knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns but he was correct. Personally, I am quite comfortable with my many unknowns. by oldedude on December 28, 2023 8:32 pm It's not a math problem, but to use a mathematical term, True and False is binary. The true or factual answer is exact. The truth can also be unpleasant. so it's not a math problem, but it is... Go To Top

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