By Donna September 17, 2023 6:48 am Category: Media (0.0 from 0 votes) Rules of the Post Write A New Article How To Post Here Rate this article (5=best, 0=poor)

"One of the conceits of MSNBC-watching liberals is that – while Fox News serves up a steady stream of propaganda – they are getting the straight news from MSNBC.

One of the hallmarks of propaganda is selective outrage. Fox News generally defends the superwealthy (the “job-creators”) and their tax cuts, but is outraged by one particular billionaire: Democratic-donor George Soros. At MSNBC, there is outrage over rich rightwing donors and Russian oligarchs, but not so much over powerful U.S. oligarchs, especially if they lean Democratic.

Another hallmark of propaganda is selective facts. Fox News cherry-picks video clips and factoids to portray President Biden as a weakling who is captive of his party’s left wing or the Chinese Communist Party, or both. He’s not. On MSNBC, he’s portrayed as a transformative agent of change, sometimes as the second coming of FDR. He’s not that either."

Rest of that piece at the link below.

I read another article in the NYT this morning that cited a poll where 67% -- that's a full two-thirds -- of Democratic voters want President Biden to be challenged for the party's 2024 nomination.

We're going to be hearing a lot more on this.

Cited and related links:

1. rsn.org

Comments Start Below

by Donna on September 17, 2023 7:35 am "Next year's contest will "be one of the darkest races in memory and "is shrouded in several myths," [former Wall Street Journal Washington Bureau Chief and Bloomberg Washington Executive Editor Al] Hunt explains. "One is that Joe Biden is the best candidate to save the country from Donald Trump: Actually, he may be among the more vulnerable. If another Democrat such as Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer were the nominee, I believe she would beat Trump like a drum. The Republican myth is that Trump, who dominates GOP polls, is their best horse: Actually, he is a weak general election candidate. I have little doubt that former South Carolina governor and United Nationals [sic] ambassador Nikki Haley would pound a rival almost 30 years older."" I agree with all of that. I have no idea if Gretchen Whitmer is even interested in running for president. But if she is, we wouldn't know because good Democrats aren't allowed to challenge Biden. I hope that changes. I'd vote for Gretchen in a heartbeat. I don't have any doubts that she'd gsrner more votes than Biden. alternet.org by islander on September 17, 2023 8:12 am This is where ranked choice voting nationwide would be a godsend !! 👍 by HatetheSwamp on September 17, 2023 9:23 am Donna, Do you have any evidence at all that Jeff Cohen watches Fox News even a little bit. His description of what Fox does doesn't comport with my experience and I watched Fox faithfully for years. Actually, it strikes as a convenient lie progressives tell...and then pass on to each other. OTOH, I do agree that 024 is shaping up to be the darkest election in years, maybe ever. HatetheSwamp, PLEEEEEASE. Tulsi 024! by Curt_Anderson on September 17, 2023 9:44 am Whenever you hear words like "Corporate Liberal Media Propaganda" you know that you will be hearing from the political fringe. The only unknown is whether it's the rightwing fringe or the leftwing fringe. Propaganda implies that it's false or misleading information. Has MSNBC, CNN, etc. been caught spewing lies without correction? I didn't think so. Do they not give Cornel West, RFK Jr or Maryanne Williamson much attention? Yes, and I thank them for their service! Joe Biden is not Bernie Sanders or Jeff Merkley. Biden is a pragmatic pluralist who understands that politics is that art of the possible. Biden is also not the president of only liberal blue states like Oregon or Vermont. Biden has much more diverse constituency. What little I know of Gretchen Whitmer I like. But she has not indicated that she plans to run. Whenever an incumbent president is challenged for the nomination, it's disaster for that party. It's true that Biden is not the second-coming of FDR. It's true Biden has a good record of accomplishment in which he has been favorably compared to Roosevelt. But FDR had the luxury of a heavily Democratic Congress. In the last week, I've read three of these op-eds hoping somebody not named Joe Biden would run the Democratic nomination. Donna suggests that we will hear more of that kind of talk. I predict that when people understand that the clock is running out and that there is no knight on a white horse trotting in to grab the Democratic presidential nomination, we will hear a lot less of this kind of talk. by oldedude on September 17, 2023 9:59 am I think it's pretty funny that someone would actually believe there is no spin on any media in the world. Even books. The author has their own spin. Mopsey has their spin. Heck, TASS has their spin! As well as aJ (whom I hate, but they seem to be the more honest out of all the news, international or domestic). It took MSNBC two years before they quit lying about pedojr's laptop. TWO YEARS. That's a millennium in news cycles. CNN (who used to be considered a "trusted source" is no longer. With Trump has come two years of conspiracy-mongering about Russia – and at the top of the heap is none other than MSNBC’s Maddow. This is why I look at what both sides have to say. I do exclude some though. MSNBC and OAN being at the top of those. I do watch OAN every once in a while, to check out the next conspiracy theory. There are a couple that are dead on and usually with breaking news. I've watched both of them for their basic breaking facts. These are generally pretty factual, and you have to wade through the politics of it. foxnews.com theguardian.com by Ponderer on September 17, 2023 10:12 am "Propaganda implies that it's false or misleading information. Has MSNBC, CNN, etc. been caught spewing lies without correction? I didn't think so." - Curt You didn't give anyone an opportunity to answer your question. Actually the answer is "yes". One example happened in early 2021 when Rachel Maddow declared "Now we know that the vaccines work well enough that the virus stops with every vaccinated person." She also said "A vaccinated person gets exposed to the virus, the virus does not infect them, the virus cannot then use that person to go anywhere else. It cannot use a vaccinated person as a host to go get more people." All of that is false, and I don't remember her airing a correction. The vaccine helps greatly, but it doesn't "stop" COVID. I isn't 100% as she led her viewers to believe. I'm sure there are other examples if you were to actually look. The main lying technique that partisan political news and info shows like Fox and MSNBC use is lying by omission, though. by Donna on September 17, 2023 10:13 am Mine ^ by Donna on September 17, 2023 10:20 am "Donna suggests that we will hear more of that kind of talk. I predict that when people understand that the clock is running out and that there is no knight on a white horse trotting in to grab the Democratic presidential nomination, we will hear a lot less of this kind of talk." - Curt There's no one "trotting in to grab the Democratic presidential nomination" from Biden because they've been cowed into submission by the Democratic Party establishment's loyalty to Biden. I think if Biden were to announce that he's stepping down, we'd see a plethora of candidates throw their hat in the ring. There's still time for Biden to do the right thing for the Democratic Party and our democracy and announce that he will not seek a second term. I doubt that'll happen, though, because of his ego. by Curt_Anderson on September 17, 2023 10:32 am You refer to Joe Biden‘s ego as if it is an anomaly. Politicians generally, and presidents in particular all have a very well developed ego. Joe Biden I am sure believes that he is the best person to defeat Donald Trump again, and at the same time save the world from an autocracy. Unless somebody can show me a viable alternative, I suspect that Joe Biden is correct. by HatetheSwamp on September 17, 2023 10:37 am Mine ^ Thanks for correcting, Donna. As I was trying to imagine those sentiments coming from po, I began to hyperventilate and experience vertigo. There's no way po can be that sensical!!!!! Bahahahahahahahahahaha keehee haha baha! by oldedude on September 17, 2023 12:11 pm There's no one "trotting in to grab the Democratic presidential nomination" from Biden because they've been cowed into submission by the Democratic Party establishment's loyalty to Biden. I think if Biden were to announce that he's stepping down, we'd see a plethora of candidates throw their hat in the ring. There's still time for Biden to do the right thing for the Democratic Party and our democracy and announce that he will not seek a second term. I doubt that'll happen, though, because of his ego. Completely agree. And there's money involved. So if joe doesn't step down, and, say, Kennedy runs, the "party" can not give him any matching funds, or commercial money. That's a pretty big hammer. And I think you are curt are both correct. Yes, he does have a big ego, and he's a politician. Both are true, and both feed in to each other. In this case he hates trumpster so much, he wants to win again just to rub his nose in it. Of course, I think trumpster is thinking the same thing. Which is why neither of them are thinking very rationally right now. by Curt_Anderson on September 17, 2023 12:47 pm Regarding Rachael Meddows comments about vaccinations and the Covid virus. There’s a good article that addresses that. It starts off with: Can vaccinated people spread COVID-19? This article was updated July 5, 2023, to reflect new information from the CDC. So can vaccinated people spread COVID to a friend or family member who is not vaccinated? It can happen. “Very few things in medicine have a 0% chance of happening”… I would not call what Rachel Maddow said more than two years ago regarding viruses and vaccination a “lie”. It was ultimately proven to be a false statement. But it is mostly true that vaccinations stop viruses. Anyway, her apparently false statement wouldn’t be harmful to the people who took her advice. Compare that to Fox news and their repeated misinformation regarding dominion voting machines, and the harm that causes when voters no longer trust our election system. It is a false equivalency to pretend that MSNBC is as bad as Fox News. Of course, if Joe Biden dropped out, there would be a line of Democrat party candidates. But you might remember what happened when LBJ declined to seek renomination. That he apparently is not isn’t exactly cowing other candidates into submission. Anyway, when you vote for president, not simply voting for one person. Every president has a team. Do you like the team he’s assembled or not? osfhealthcare.org by islander on September 17, 2023 12:52 pm ”Joe Biden I am sure believes that he is the best person to defeat Donald Trump again, and at the same time save the world from an autocracy. Unless somebody can show me a viable alternative, I suspect that Joe Biden is correct.” ~ Curt I agree. Being a pragmatic idealist I know the person that I think would make the best president is not always or necessarily the candidate with the best chance of winning. So when I am in the voting booth I have to make a choice. This is one of the reasons I am always pushing for ranked choice voting…I can always vote for the candidate that I think has the best chance of winning and I can vote for the candidate I think would make the best president...without the fear of throwing my vote away. Having seen what Biden has accomplished during his time in office, I have to say; I believe he has actually done better than I expected. I pay no attention whatsoever to the foolish arguments that he is too old or senile, especially since most of those pushing that idea ignore the fact that Trump and Biden are in the same age bracket with only two years separating them. And both physically and mentally I think Biden is in far superior condition than Trump. And Biden is in far better condition, both physically and mentally by a good 10 to 20 years than many of his detractors calling him too old including people I know personally and a number other politicians themselves. I am also not foolish enough to think that Biden or any other politician (or any person) is without flaws. Counting on polls at this time to give us any serious information with regard to the two present front-runners is, in my opinion, foolish since the election is more than a year away. I personally don’t think (at this point) that next year's contest will be one of the darkest races in memory but I do think it will be one of the most interesting. There’s going to be a lot of exciting stuff happening between now and then. 👍 by HatetheSwamp on September 17, 2023 1:28 pm I pay no attention whatsoever to the foolish arguments that he is too old or senile, especially since most of those pushing that idea ignore the fact that Trump and Biden are in the same age... When Trump ejaculates, "God save the Queen, man!" [1:00] And, proclaims his love for the song, "Good Morning Vietnam," I'll think this makes sense. Oh, and "dog-faced lying pony soldier," too. Yeah. Joe's sharp as a whip, isle. Baha baha ha. isle, I'm pretty sure that you're a victim, willingly no doubt, of the slanted pro-Biden reporting of the woke, progressive SwampMedia. View Video by Curt_Anderson on September 17, 2023 1:55 pm HtS is quick to repeat ad nauseum and criticize every gaffe and misstatement that Biden has ever uttered It doesn't take much imagination to predict what HtS (and FOX News) would do if Biden had said what Trump said: "I've gone decades, decades without a war. The first president to do it for that long a period." (decades?) "We built the wall, and now we will add to it. Now, we built the wall – we completed the wall – and then we said let’s do more, and we did a lot more. And we did a lot more." (not close to "complete") Or Trump's completely false claim that he "sent in the National Guard in Minneapolis and in other places" after the death of George Floyd. Btw, the above and 17 other false and misleading claims were spouted in a single speech, Trump's announcement that he was running for president again. cnn.com by Donna on September 17, 2023 4:59 pm Did anyone read the article in my opening post? Democrats in particular should. All the polls are indicating that a clear majority of Americans don't want Trump or Biden to be the next president. I like Bernie Sanders, but I don't want him to run either because clearly most Americans want a president who isn't as old as dirt. I along with most Democrats want a younger candidate we can get excited about and who can win over most independents. That isn't Joe Biden. I'm tired of the blockade. It starts with Joe Biden. Unless he announces that he isn't going to run for reelection, no Democrat of importance is going to challenge him. The trutb us that both parties are marching in lock step behind guys who make most Americans want to vomit. by Donna on September 17, 2023 5:21 pm I also think that if Biden and Trump are candidates, it opens the door to the possibility that a third party candidate could win. This is the first time I've said that about a presidential election. by oldedude on September 17, 2023 6:59 pm "Propaganda implies that it's false or misleading information. Has MSNBC, CNN, etc. been caught spewing lies without correction? I didn't think so." - Curt PROPAGANDA-information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. My view is that CNN/MSNBC all towed the lie from the CDC. Hook line and sinker. It wasn't until they were proved wrong have they retracted anything. Not to say that's rare, but this is what the issue with pedojoe telling the major social media (tiktok, facebook, twitter, etc) what could be on their sites, and to ensure the powerful could sell their big pharma drugs to unsuspecting minions. This was also in the pedojr computer issue. oed.com oversight.house.gov reason.com cnn.com by Curt_Anderson on September 17, 2023 8:02 pm Donna, I read the article. There is something of a response in CNN below. Third parties will have tough go in 2024 because of their poor showing in 2020. They won’t be on many state ballots. cnn.com by Curt_Anderson on September 17, 2023 8:30 pm OD, When you said that, MSNBC and CNN toed the CDC line, you’re basically saying that those networks reported what CDC said. In Ponderer’s example of a “lie“ by Rachel Maddow, Maddow, said that in the presence of government doctor, Dr. Walenski. Since the time of Louis Pasteur, we have had a pretty good idea of the efficacy of vaccinations. Science is always evolving and self correcting. Our best current understanding about any medical condition is not what it will be 10 years from now. Isn’t it better to hear what epidemiologists, immunologist, doctors, and other scientists have to say about an epidemic then it is to listen to crockpot notions about ivermectin or ideas about inserting bleach into our system? Ron DeSantis has suggested that Robert F Kennedy junior is qualified to head to CDC or the FDA. Republicans are the anti-science party. by Curt_Anderson on September 17, 2023 8:51 pm Donna, Incidentally, the author of the article you cited, is the founder of a group called Roots Action. Roots Action wants Biden, Putin and Zelensky to "negotiate" now to end the war in Ukraine. That sort of talk strikes me as being tantamount to telling a rapist while in the act and his rape victim to work things out. rootsaction.org by oldedude on September 18, 2023 4:35 am curt #20- When you said that, MSNBC and CNN toed the CDC line, you’re basically saying that those networks reported what CDC said. In Ponderer’s example of a “lie“ by Rachel Maddow, Maddow, said that in the presence of government doctor, Dr. Walenski. I agree there was a lot of chaos in the early days of the pandemic. There was actually misinformation from the CDC during that time. Americans were willing, in a short term to do what the "government" said. Then it became evident they weren't listening to other countries that had very good data and were coming up with alternatives to the CDC. Examples; Stay indoors. Especially when sunshine is a known (for thousands of years) best practice in both physical and mental health. Close down schools. The bane of everyone's existence. Children learn better from personal interaction. We are now two years behind in schools, especially for the middle and lower income students. The shot is far better than natural immunity. The CDC owes an apology to the signers of the Great Barrington Declaration, not to mention the public. Released in October 2020 and now signed by nearly a million “infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists,” the declaration recommends targeting shots to vulnerable people (older adults and those with other health conditions) and achieving herd immunity by allowing the healthy and young to get COVID-19 as they would any other virus. When did they even mention any alternative view without mocking it? Even now, those media outlets are kowtowing to the CDC/pedojoe administration. In your defense, the CDC should be someone we can trust with information the lay persons (as ourselves) should be able to go to without any questions. We rely on them for good solid information to keep us healthy. They are not. They are just willful pawns of big pharma and WHO/the Chinese. forbes.com nypost.com washingtonpost.com washingtontimes.com by HatetheSwamp on September 18, 2023 4:51 am ...the CDC should be someone we can trust with information the lay persons (as ourselves) should be able to go to without any questions. We rely on them for good solid information to keep us healthy. They are not. They are just willful pawns of big pharma and WHO/the Chinese. Bang on, OD. Something important shifted in the US. I think before Covid but certainly in the aftermath of "flatten the curve" in 020. The bureaucracy became advocacy...all in favor of the progressive big government Swampcult. Is it any wonder that half the GOP wants to bring back Trump and that there are serious third-party rumblings. HatetheSwamp! by islander on September 18, 2023 5:51 am All the polls are indicating that a clear majority of Americans don't want Trump or Biden to be the next president. ~ Donna To me, these kinds of polls really don’t tell us anything meaningful about how people will actually vote when they step into the polling booth more than a year from now. It’s simply human nature for people to look around and believe that we can do better than this (because we actually can). So when someone asks a question like, “Are you happy with the way the guy who is in office is running things right now or would you like to have someone else who can (might be able) do things better”? The answer to that question is easy, of course we'd choose a different candidate that we thought could do better. But it doesn’t tell us anything about whether the person will or will not vote for the guy who running things now. I think most people adopt a wait and see attitude until they know who will be on the ballot. by Donna on September 18, 2023 6:18 am Curt, bringing up the author's views on Ukraine doesn't invalidate the article I posted where he makes some good points. Byw, what Rachel claimed in the presence of the CDC director then was later refuted by the CDC itself. Actually I like Rachel Maddow. Republicans attack her because she's good. I was just refuting your claim about her. islander - Yes, I agree that it's too far out to predict how well Biden would do in the election, but I think there's plenty of cause for concern and that the Democrats and the country would be best served if Biden stepped down and allowed voters to choose who will represent the party in the 2024 presidential election. by islander on September 18, 2023 6:43 am If they haven’t been swayed either consciously or subconsciously by Republican’s non-stop BS about a Biden "crime family" or what a terrible job Biden’s been doing or that he is “too old’ to be a wise and EXPERIENCED leader, Democrats expressing concerns and fears about Biden for 2024, don’t seem to really have much to say as to why they are afraid that Biden might not be fit to continue doing the decent, actually very good job, he’s been doing in leading us out of the destruction caused by the Putin/Trump faction of the Republican party. My only concern is that if we don’t counter the Republican nonsense, an uncomfortable number of Democrats will fall prey to it and fear standing up for Biden. by Donna on September 18, 2023 7:03 am It's foolish for you and Curt to turn a blind eye to what people in our own party are saying about Biden's age just because you personally disagree with them. Check out my latest posts on Curt's Dead Man Walking topic thread. 69% of Democrats think Biden is too old to be an effective president for another 4 years. I think that's alarming. by islander on September 18, 2023 7:20 am I'm not ignoring it, in fact, as I said it is a big concern of mine and I explained why. I think we need to work hard at exposing the Republicans tactics to those Democrats who may have fallen for them and help them to see the dangers inherent in imagining that what the Republicans (the Putin Trump faction) are trying to get them to believe about Biden might be true. by HatetheSwamp on September 18, 2023 7:23 am If they haven’t been swayed either consciously or subconsciously by Republican’s non-stop BS about a Biden "crime family" or what a terrible job Biden’s been doing or that he is “too old’ to be a wise and EXPERIENCED leader... Different shades of the uniparty, dude. "Dog-faced lying pony soldier...God save the Queen, man!" Talk about your nonsense, baha keehee baha. View Video by Donna on September 18, 2023 2:25 pm I think it's lame and frankly out-of-touch to think that Biden's massive unpopularity with Democrats is all the doing of the Republican Party. by Donna on September 18, 2023 2:33 pm Btw, no Democratic nominee or president has been attacked more fiercely than Obama. They called him a "secret Muslim" and said he wasn't born in America and was therefore ineligible for crissakes. And I had no problem with Obama seeking a second term. by islander on September 19, 2023 7:23 am It’s not just the republicans themselves working to discredit Biden, there are plenty of democrats who have, like I said, either consciously of unconsciously been swept up in the nonstop barrage of Republican’s deceptive caricature of Biden as a man suffering from dementia, who is too old, and claim that Democrats themselves don’t like or want him to be president because he is incompetent, won’t be able to beat Trump if Trump is nominated. Except for the fact that some Democrats are worried about Biden's ability to defeat Trump or any other Republican candidate, none of that is true of course, however the “we just need somebody young” is easier to accept since, unlike Obama, Biden is no orator, suffers from a speech impediment, and lacks the charisma of Obama. I think now is the time for Democrats to pull together, this is no time to try and fix something that ain’t broke by changing horses in the middle of stream…Considering what Biden was up against when he came into office, I think he has been doing a remakably good job both repairing the Trump damage and getting things done that need to be done. With the odds stacked against him, Biden has pulled off some amazing accomplishments. It IS time that Democrats begin searching in earnest for their next candidate and begin the process of preparing that candidate, making the candidate well known, and setting up the ground work for 2028. Now is not the time for cynicism or pessimism which is what the Republicans would like to foster among Democratic voters. We are in the midst of a cold civil war…When we hear that we are in a battle for the soul of our country…it is true. by HatetheSwamp on September 19, 2023 9:10 am It’s not just the republicans themselves working to discredit Biden, there are plenty of democrats who have, like I said, either consciously of unconsciously been swept up in the nonstop barrage of Republican’s deceptive caricature... Oy, isle. You're so, uh, prissy. This is standard presidential election politics in the US since the first election George Washington wasn't running. Golly, isle. Golly, golly, golly! by Indy! on September 19, 2023 10:17 am I read about the first half the thread because it's too long to come in this late but... 1. Donna - I respect everything you said 2. Media bias - step away from all of the cable networks for a year, then come back. It's unbelievable how much they lie - mainly by ommission, but plenty of straight up other lies. And that's from their "BEST" people. Watch the lower level hosts like Joy Reid and entire shows are based on nothing BUT lies. 3. Rachel Maddow's covid lie is the least of her transgressions. In a world where media mattered - she never would have been allowed back on the air after the Russia fiasco (which Curt still buys - btw). She never ONCE apologized for YEARS of lying about the Steele Dossier. 4. Speaking of Curt, he's basically the "liberal" version of my dad - so bought into the party line he is incapable of believing anything bad about any candidate with a D next to his name. His definition of "fringe" is anyone willing to use their brain to think for themselves. 5. Getting back to Donna's thoughts - I believe this is a good year for third parties to break thru. Not necessarily win anything - but to make it clear we are TIRED of these two useless parties dominating our country and slowly but surely destroying it. by Donna on September 19, 2023 10:54 am Thanks Indy. Clearly Biden and party leaders are ignoring the wishes of almost 70% of registered Democrats. Curt and islander are fine with that. That's part of the reason why Democrats have been leaving the party. by Indy! on September 19, 2023 4:36 pm Exactly. Curt IS the fringe - he just doesn't realize it because he gets his talking points from MSNBC. Go To Top

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