Post: Oklahoma passes bill banning gender-confirmation s

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Oklahoma passes bill banning gender-confirmation surgeries, puberty blockers, and hormone therapy for minors

By HatetheSwamp
April 28, 2023 7:45 am
Category: Gay & Lesbian

(0.0 from 0 votes)
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The Republican-dominated Senate voted overwhelmingly in favor of the bill, passing it in a 37-8 vote.

The bill clarifies that the bill would not prohibit counseling for gender dysphoria or medication aiming to treat depression and anxiety in those born with incomplete, ambiguous, and both male and female genitalia.

This seems reasonable to me.

Cited and related links:

washingtonexaminer.com

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Comments on "Oklahoma passes bill banning gender-confirmation surgeries, puberty blockers, and hormone therapy for minors":

by Hunter28 on April 28, 2023 9:00 am

As I mentioned in another thread -- with a comment aimed at the pro-trans community -- it would be nice if we could slow down, have a conversation and reach a consensus before we start writing and passing laws. That also applies to the anti-trans crowd.

by HatetheSwamp on April 28, 2023 9:28 am

28,

Conversation is needed. No doubt. However, it's been needed for too long. Hence, the barrage of legislation during this year.

Before you showed up here, I'd been begging our trans people here to offer rhetoric beyond the accusation that people who support these laws are "Christian theocrats" and that most, if not all, of these bills are "fascistic and disgusting." But, crickets. Anger and hate are the essence of trans rhetoric.

As a right-ish libertarian, my take is that mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps and old-school feminists have been patient but that the demands in the trans political agenda have become increasingly outrageous.

Some of these bill/laws are far too oppressive for me to support but there's no room for moderation...from either side.

by Ponderer on April 28, 2023 2:58 pm

"I'd been begging our trans people here to offer rhetoric beyond the accusation that people who support these laws are "Christian theocrats" and that most, if not all, of these bills are "fascistic and disgusting."" -Hate

Bill, Donna has explained to you until she's red in the face that she was speaking about a few specific laws that sought to ban transgender care for children and adults altogether. People who are seeking to eradicate all transgender care and/or constitutional protections for trans people, if they are doing so because of their religious convictions (since there really is no other reason to), are in fact being extremely theocratic, fascistic, and disgusting. It's not Donna's fault that there aren't any nicer ways of saying that.

And she never said that "most, if not all" trans laws are fascistic and disgusting. Yet you keep on declaring that she did.

This is yet another example of why you need to go fukk yourself.

by oldedude on April 28, 2023 6:57 pm
Bill, Donna has explained to you until she's red in the face that she was speaking about a few specific laws that sought to ban transgender care for children and adults altogether.

Then that's not what he was talking about. Move on.

by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 3:40 am

Bill, Donna has explained to you until she's red in the face that she was speaking about a few specific laws that sought to ban transgender care for children and adults altogether.

Really. List a half dozen of those bills and laws.

Still...and this is the real point: It's one thing to disagree with laws. It's a thing to vehemently oppose them.

Where you raise the temperature to a dangerous degree is the labeling. Fascistic. Disgusting. In an effin "democracy," you'll never help your cause.

And again...

List a half dozen or so of those laws that ban transgender care for every effin one.

by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 5:23 am

So, po and pt, let's be specific.

Montana bans gender-affirming care for minors after transgender lawmaker censure

Gov. Greg Gianforte (R) signed the bill into law after it comfortably passed the state House and Senate earlier this month. His signature makes Montana one of more than a dozen states that have passed legislation prohibiting transgender youth from accessing gender-affirming care, according to the Movement Advancement Project, which tracks state legislation on LGBTQ issues.

The law states that a person may not provide minors with gender-affirming medical treatments including surgical procedures, doses of testosterone or estrogen or puberty blockers. It includes exceptions for minors who have a “medically verifiable disorder of sex development.”

So: "Fascistic and disgusting?" Why or why not?

thehill.com

by Ponderer on April 29, 2023 2:27 pm

I'm Donna, not pt. Please refer to me by my real name, which is also my moniker here. I do that for you, Hts. I expect the same in return. Capiche?

I'm not interested in arguing about this issue or for that matter politics anymore. My only interest is providing accurate information on TG issues along with my opinions. As a 23+ year post-op transsexual, I feel a sort of calling to clear the air. Thank you, islander for recognizing my, along with my wife Ponderer's expertise.

The following is a post I wrote months ago on the "Following Frankie Schaeffer" topic thread. I posted my new comments in bold type.

***

Republicans have already passed laws that criminalize parents and physicians for treating transgender youth, which IMO is a disgusting and fascistic overreach.

[That's the only thing I find "fascistic and disgusting" regarding this topic.]

If I had received gender-affirming medical care when I was a youth, my transition would have been more successful, because if you transition after puberty, it's impossible to reverse some secondary sex characteristics like deepening of the voice and enlargement of skeletal structure in males. I envy transgender people who didn't go through normal puberty, which is a rarity when IMO it should be the norm for trans youth who have particularly intense gender dysphoria.

From Reuters:

Republicans have introduced more than 300 bills in 33 states aiming to limit transgender and wider lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer (LGBTQ) rights this year, more than double the number of such bills filed in 2022, according to Erin Reed, Alejandra Caraballo and Allison Chapman, a trio of transgender rights advocates tracking the legislation.

[I agree with preventing post-male-pubescent transwomen athletes from competing with cis women. With young children (pre-pubescent), I don't think it matters if TG girls play on girls' teams or TG boys play on boys' teams.]

In addition to the familiar legislative efforts targeting sports and bathrooms [I also don't think that a child should be able to simply declare themselves TG and expect to be granted access to facilities for the other physical sex], the emphasis this year is on banning gender-affirming care, the goal of 97 bills in 27 states.

Gender-affirming care covers a variety of treatments, including puberty blockers, hormone therapy and, in exceedingly rare cases for trans people under 18, surgery. Medical associations, which call the bills transphobic, say such healthcare can be life-saving.

[SRS nor any gender-related surgeries other than those associated with treating intersexed children is ever performed on minors, and neither is testosterone or estrogen therapy, at least with the AMA's approval as there are always going to be renegade doctors. Puberty blockers are occasionally prescribed, which is permitted by the AMA, but even that's rare.]

In many states, transgender children and their parents have testified against the proposed legislation, describing how gender-affirming care changed their lives and fearing the impact of the bills, which have proliferated even as federal courts blocked bans passed in Arkansas in 2021 and Alabama in 2022.

But many opponents of trans rights believe that the sex assigned at birth is immutable and distrust the prevailing opinions of medical associations with specialties in pediatrics, endocrinology and mental health. They contend the government must intervene to prevent parents and doctors from permanently harming children.

Governors in South Dakota and Utah have already signed into law gender-affirming care bans that state legislatures passed this year.

[A couple of weeks ago, the Missouri legislature passed a bill which prevents adult TGs from having SRS performed if the patient is depressed, which is ridiculous because gender dysphoria is the source of the depression that SRS has been so successful treating. I can personally attest to that.]

Bills in Idaho, Missouri and Wyoming would criminalize providing such care as felony child abuse, while measures in Tennessee and Texas would categorize it as abuse under family law.

The Tennessee bill, which would bar doctors from providing gender-affirming care to anyone under the age of 18, passed the state's Republican-led Senate on Monday.

Transgender advocates say such moves are punitive, especially considering the difficulty of getting treatment due to cost, lack of family support or trouble finding a provider.

[I don't think that politicians should ever be allowed to come between doctor and patient as long as the doctor is acting within the standards of care that have been determined by the American Medical Association. IMO that kind of political intrusion is what I find fascistic and disgusting.]

***

My opinions on TG issues will probably continue to be mischaracterized, but I'm quite used to people on social media (not only here) mischaracterizing me or simply not reading carefully what I post.

On a positive note, it's good to see you, Hts, focusing more on your own personal opinions on various issues.

by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 3:10 pm

...many opponents of trans rights believe that the sex assigned at birth is immutable and distrust the prevailing opinions of medical associations with specialties in pediatrics, endocrinology and mental health.

My guess is that, in the US, that number is quite a few tens of millions.

"the prevailing opinions of medical..."

You're not suggesting that it's unanimous, are you?

I do appreciate your transparency. I think that the trans community would benefit from this...and not accusations of people being "Christian theocrats" and of anyone's proposed political remedy as "fascistic and disgusting." That will never create good will.

by Ponderer on April 30, 2023 9:33 am

"'the prevailing opinions of medical...'

You're not suggesting that it's unanimous, are you?" -Hate

Bill, there is simply no rational or logical way that any sane person would think she was from that comment. Do your seriously not know what the phrase prevailing opinions means...???

Why do you see it as something of a religious quest to mischaracterize what Donna and I say? Why must you lie your ass off about us pretty much any time we ever have a discussion with you?

by HatetheSwamp on May 1, 2023 3:43 am

po,

There's a moment in one of the early AGATHA CHRISTI'S POIROT episodes where the TV writers, from one of the early short stories, Poirot preaches to Captain Hastings because scientists are now saying that the earth will cool by three degrees in the next thousand years.

The humor there?

That particular Poirot story was published in 1923 by Christie, and the PREVAILING scientific opinion then was that the earth is cooling...dangerously...so much so that the Belgian detective could preach it, and with conviction. As if the prevailing opinion was established fact.

Prevailing opinion is what's current. It could be unanimous in the moment. But, with this trans stuff, it ain't unanimous.

In the case of trans issues, it seems to me, it's driven by woke orthodoxy not science. It, trust me, is not what medical authorities who appear on Newsmax, or the Clay and Buck Show are, well, preaching.

So, it's current and, beyond your chosen authorities, disputed.

by Ponderer on May 1, 2023 7:52 am

Prevailing opinion and Unanimous opinion are not the same thing, Bill. Much as you would like to cover up the fact that you were wrong about them being so.

The problem here is that you can't understand the entire concept of nuance. Just because two things have similarities doesn't mean that they are the same thing.

You seemed to want to acknowledge the difference when you accused whoever said what you were quoting of thinking it meant something different. But once I called you on that, you flipped over to wanting them to mean the same thing.

It must be absolutely exhausting keeping track of all your various and sundry hypocrisies. I actually pity you.

by HatetheSwamp on May 1, 2023 8:01 am

I was accusing, uh, Donna, of arguing that "prevailing" opinion as having the authority of unanimous opinion.

by Ponderer on May 1, 2023 8:31 am

"I was accusing, uh, Donna, of arguing that "prevailing" opinion as having the authority of unanimous opinion. " -Hate

Well that was certainly a stupid thing to do. As she never said or inferred any such thing.

It gets really tiring having to correct all the lies you and od pull out of your asses about us. It's partly why frustration tends to eventually lead me to beg you to go fukk yourself. As in this case I do.

by HatetheSwamp on May 1, 2023 9:07 am

Rest assured. Your correction of my weakness and frailty is my constant comfort.

You are a blessing to us all.

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